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Reply All did an episode on this that was really good: https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/109-facebook-spying#episode-player https://www.gimletmedia.com/repl

by hmhrex 9y ago

Reply All did an episode on this that was really good: https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/109-facebook-spying#episode-player https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/109-facebook-spying#ep... The thing I thought was interesting is just how adamant people are about FB spying via mic. They also had an update in their year-end episode: https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/113-reply-alls-year-end-extravaganza#episode-player https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/113-reply-alls-year-en... Both worth a listen.

smt88 9y ago
Something to note as you listen is that people convinced they're being spied on are mostly amused by it. They don't sound outraged or frightened at all.
- BlueGh0st 9y ago
  I believe that's the sentiment of most users, unnervingly.
- hmhrex 9y ago
  Which is a little surreal. I think I get the same way though. It really freaks me out, but there's not much I can do about it, so I'll laugh it off. I don't use social media (although I'm still on Reddit), and I still feel this way.
  - smt88 9y ago
    You can do one more thing that may be extreme, depending on where you live now. You can move to a country covered by GDPR. If you're in the US, you can also be a privacy activist, which we need more of.
falcolas 9y ago
> just how adamant people are about FB spying via mic I'm of the opinion that it's easier for your average Jane/Joe to believe (and maybe even preferable to believe) that someone is listening and responding to your words than a computer piecing together a picture of you from unrelated clues via some nebulous "machine learning algorithm". Anybody can listen to your words and advertise to you based on them. It is, on the other hand, not feasible for a human to look at a stream of unrelated posts and figure out that you're pregnant.
- _sdegutis 9y ago
  I might have believed that too, except I know about data profiles and ML, I’m a programmer and can think like that too, and yet I’m still convinced by the examples my wife and our friends personally encounter that there’s no better explanation than that FB is spying on us via the mic and using it to target ads to us.
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    Don't you think it's more likely that they just aren't noticing the ad before it is relevant? I mean, how often do you really notice an ad anyway? That being said, perhaps the ads are doing their job and planting the idea for that particular product. You then bring it up in conversation or mention it out loud. Then, when you return to facebook later, you see the same ad again and due to it's recent mention, it jumps out at you. Both seem more plausible.
    - _sdegutis 9y ago
      No. We've definitely mentioned out loud things we've never searched for or even entered into a phone or computer, either before or afterwards, and they've shown up in our ads within hours. It's happening at least once a week now. I'm confident it's not any kind of cognitive bias, and that it's just FB spying on us through our mics.
      - icebraining 9y ago
        jjeaff didn't say you searched for or entered it into your devices, but that it might have been the devices themselves that first made you think about those topics.
      - jjeaff 9y ago
        I call BS. You're just hyper sensitive to it now. There is absolutely no way FB is able to spy on people through their phone mics at this time.
- tomc1985 9y ago
colordrops 9y ago
There isn't strong evidence either way that Facebook is or isn't listening in on the mic. Considering they spy on everything else, and they've exhibited plenty of sociopathic behavior, it's reasonable to assume they listen to audio surreptitiously until proven otherwise.
- circadiam 9y ago
  I'm glad you're not a judge
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - colordrops 9y ago
    This is the same sort of flawed logic as people who won't take a breath without a peer reviewed study saying air is safe. Personal decisions are not the same as the legal system.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  > There isn't strong evidence either way that Facebook is or isn't listening in on the mic. Is there _any_ evidence that Facebook is spying using the mic? Surely we have to start there, right?
  - colordrops 9y ago
    Once again my point is we don't know, and based on past behavior it would be prudent for you to assume they do if for whatever reason you don't want to be listened to. I was responding to the unsupported assertion that Facebook is not listening to you. If you only use direct evidence to come to conclusions and toss out theories and deductive and inductive reasoning you won't be able to function in this world.
    - madeofpalk 9y ago
      But there's lots of things we don't know. Just because I think Facebook is creepy and advertising-crazy, doesn't mean I can just make up claims. You have to come to the table with at least a little bit more than just not liking FB and superstition.
ppbutt 9y ago
Funny how they're adament that Facebook doesn't utilize microphone (while they still don't really know themselves). Why is it laughable that Facebook is using both the FB Pixel, microphone, and other technologies to spy?
Spooky23 9y ago
I found that episode annnoying because it implies that the red line is microphone tracking. They buried a lede — the story laid out a case that Facebook doesn’t need your audio. Isn’t that a bigger story?
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  They explicitly talk about that in the episode though - the reality of Facebook buying all this credit card and shopping history data might actually be creepier than them listening to your mic.
alanh 9y ago
It’s a wonderful podcast. +1 to the recommendation of that episode.

by hmhrex 9y ago

smt88 9y ago

Something to note as you listen is that people convinced they're being spied on are mostly amused by it. They don't sound outraged or frightened at all.

BlueGh0st 9y ago
I believe that's the sentiment of most users, unnervingly.
hmhrex 9y ago
Which is a little surreal. I think I get the same way though. It really freaks me out, but there's not much I can do about it, so I'll laugh it off. I don't use social media (although I'm still on Reddit), and I still feel this way.
- smt88 9y ago
  You can do one more thing that may be extreme, depending on where you live now. You can move to a country covered by GDPR. If you're in the US, you can also be a privacy activist, which we need more of.

falcolas 9y ago

> just how adamant people are about FB spying via mic I'm of the opinion that it's easier for your average Jane/Joe to believe (and maybe even preferable to believe) that someone is listening and responding to your words than a computer piecing together a picture of you from unrelated clues via some nebulous "machine learning algorithm". Anybody can listen to your words and advertise to you based on them. It is, on the other hand, not feasible for a human to look at a stream of unrelated posts and figure out that you're pregnant.

_sdegutis 9y ago
I might have believed that too, except I know about data profiles and ML, I’m a programmer and can think like that too, and yet I’m still convinced by the examples my wife and our friends personally encounter that there’s no better explanation than that FB is spying on us via the mic and using it to target ads to us.
- jjeaff 9y ago
  Don't you think it's more likely that they just aren't noticing the ad before it is relevant? I mean, how often do you really notice an ad anyway? That being said, perhaps the ads are doing their job and planting the idea for that particular product. You then bring it up in conversation or mention it out loud. Then, when you return to facebook later, you see the same ad again and due to it's recent mention, it jumps out at you. Both seem more plausible.
  - _sdegutis 9y ago
    No. We've definitely mentioned out loud things we've never searched for or even entered into a phone or computer, either before or afterwards, and they've shown up in our ads within hours. It's happening at least once a week now. I'm confident it's not any kind of cognitive bias, and that it's just FB spying on us through our mics.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      jjeaff didn't say you searched for or entered it into your devices, but that it might have been the devices themselves that first made you think about those topics.
    - jjeaff 9y ago
      I call BS. You're just hyper sensitive to it now. There is absolutely no way FB is able to spy on people through their phone mics at this time.
tomc1985 9y ago

colordrops 9y ago

There isn't strong evidence either way that Facebook is or isn't listening in on the mic. Considering they spy on everything else, and they've exhibited plenty of sociopathic behavior, it's reasonable to assume they listen to audio surreptitiously until proven otherwise.

circadiam 9y ago
I'm glad you're not a judge
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- colordrops 9y ago
  This is the same sort of flawed logic as people who won't take a breath without a peer reviewed study saying air is safe. Personal decisions are not the same as the legal system.
madeofpalk 9y ago
> There isn't strong evidence either way that Facebook is or isn't listening in on the mic. Is there _any_ evidence that Facebook is spying using the mic? Surely we have to start there, right?
- colordrops 9y ago
  Once again my point is we don't know, and based on past behavior it would be prudent for you to assume they do if for whatever reason you don't want to be listened to. I was responding to the unsupported assertion that Facebook is not listening to you. If you only use direct evidence to come to conclusions and toss out theories and deductive and inductive reasoning you won't be able to function in this world.
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    But there's lots of things we don't know. Just because I think Facebook is creepy and advertising-crazy, doesn't mean I can just make up claims. You have to come to the table with at least a little bit more than just not liking FB and superstition.

ppbutt 9y ago

Funny how they're adament that Facebook doesn't utilize microphone (while they still don't really know themselves). Why is it laughable that Facebook is using both the FB Pixel, microphone, and other technologies to spy?

Spooky23 9y ago

I found that episode annnoying because it implies that the red line is microphone tracking. They buried a lede — the story laid out a case that Facebook doesn’t need your audio. Isn’t that a bigger story?

madeofpalk 9y ago
They explicitly talk about that in the episode though - the reality of Facebook buying all this credit card and shopping history data might actually be creepier than them listening to your mic.

alanh 9y ago

It’s a wonderful podcast. +1 to the recommendation of that episode.