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Facebook already has plenty of issues with people not trusting them. Lying about this and then being caught red handed would be devastating from a public opinio

by pdpi 9y ago

Facebook already has plenty of issues with people not trusting them. Lying about this and then being caught red handed would be devastating from a public opinion perspective. Even if you assume a completely amoral team that cares about nothing but ad revenue, do you genuinely think they’d risk something as dangerous as that? Especially given how much you can still achieve with the data that is known to be collected?

jimjimjim 9y ago
in the current climate, getting caught doing anything just means you have to slime your way out of it, rename/rebadge the activity and then carry on when the attention goes somewhere else. is uber still the most hated company or has the magnifying glass moved onto somewhere else?
numbsafari 9y ago
What makes you think that user trust isn’t one of the things they’re willing to break in order to move fast?
smt88 9y ago
I've met a lot of people outside HN who believe FB is listening to their conversations through the mic. I haven't yet met one who has stopped using it as a result. I think you wildly overestimate how angry users get about privacy violations. For examples, Target, Yahoo, Home Depot, and Equifax have not been screamed into rubble.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  To be fair, people who believe that are not bright bulbs. They fail at very simple statistical analysis and conspiracy theory testing.
  - Simon_says 9y ago
    To be fair, almost everybody fails at statistical analysis, even scientists whose work depends on it.
- pnutjam 9y ago
  Many of them haven't stopped using facebook, but many have uninstalled the app.
pmoriarty 9y ago
How devastating would it be, really? It would likely be a blip in the news, and then people would move on, as usual. Remember the Sony rootkit fiasco? People still buy Sony, and most people probably either never heard of that incident, don't remember, or don't care. Buying whatever the new Sony gizmo of the day is is more important to them. Microsoft has had endless spyware fiascos, and people still routinely buy Windows, as long as they can play their games or run Office, that's all that matters to most of them. Then there have been scandals like Enron, where the execs knew that they were doing something that was clearly illegal, and that their company really would be devastated if what they did was ever revealed. These "smartest people in the room" did it anyway. Corporate history is full of just such deceptive and destructive practices. I'm not sure I'd put Facebook above that sort of thing, a priori.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Exactly. People would be outraged! and they will happily log into Facebook to post their outrage about Facebook.
  - Trundle 9y ago
    I remember when some news broke about Facebook doing something or other a year ago and the common response seemed to be to make an official sounding wall post saying "I do not give Facebook the right to do X with my data", sort of like Michael Scott yelling "I declare bankruptcy!" I can see that happening again with voice recordings.
- herogreen 9y ago
  Speaking of badware: last week I found Mac Afee installed on the laptop of a relative that I manage. I assured me that he had not installed it himself (I had not installed anything actually). Could it have come from windows updates ?
  - plaguuuuuu 9y ago
    if you manage their device there's a great chance they have no fucking idea what they're doing and could easily have installed it unintentionally
dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
Uber broke almost every moral rule and still everybody's using it.
- schaefer 9y ago
  I refuse to ever install the Uber app, specifically because of their conduct. So not literally everyone... but still many.
  - yorby 9y ago
    I can see someone having to install the uber app... but having to install the facebook app? just use the web app... that might be possible with uber too but I'm not sure because I don't use uber
    - icebraining 9y ago
      m.uber.com works fine without installing anything.
  - CaptainZapp 9y ago
    The Uber app was "helpfully" pre-installed by Microsoft on my Lumia 950. It was the second to go, just after Facebook.
falcolas 9y ago
> being caught red handed would be devastating from a public opinion perspective For what it's worth, this public opinion backlash has not appeared with other companies: "Of course we're not working on leaked project [x]". "Look at project [x] we're working on!" Even Facebook's own under-disclosed psychological experiments have been largely forgotten; Facebook has suffered few if any long-term ill effects from it.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  The psychological experiments scandal was a nothingburger from the start. Facebook is not an academic research institution. They already operate with user's consent. Every business that engages in advertising or product design is performing psychological experiments.
z3t4 9y ago
Their customers love it, and with customers I mean advertisers. For users to leave there must be somewhere to leave to. And there needs to be another business model that does not depend on marketing. Maybe selling actual hardware, with built in social media.
Spooky23 9y ago
Hubris is powerful. Look at the dumb behavior exhibited by Uber as an example.
yAnonymous 9y ago
How much worse would being caught lying be compared to straight up admitting it? I'd say it's worth the risk for them.

by pdpi 9y ago

jimjimjim 9y ago

in the current climate, getting caught doing anything just means you have to slime your way out of it, rename/rebadge the activity and then carry on when the attention goes somewhere else. is uber still the most hated company or has the magnifying glass moved onto somewhere else?

numbsafari 9y ago

What makes you think that user trust isn’t one of the things they’re willing to break in order to move fast?

smt88 9y ago

I've met a lot of people outside HN who believe FB is listening to their conversations through the mic. I haven't yet met one who has stopped using it as a result. I think you wildly overestimate how angry users get about privacy violations. For examples, Target, Yahoo, Home Depot, and Equifax have not been screamed into rubble.

fjsolwmv 9y ago
To be fair, people who believe that are not bright bulbs. They fail at very simple statistical analysis and conspiracy theory testing.
- Simon_says 9y ago
  To be fair, almost everybody fails at statistical analysis, even scientists whose work depends on it.
pnutjam 9y ago
Many of them haven't stopped using facebook, but many have uninstalled the app.

pmoriarty 9y ago

How devastating would it be, really? It would likely be a blip in the news, and then people would move on, as usual. Remember the Sony rootkit fiasco? People still buy Sony, and most people probably either never heard of that incident, don't remember, or don't care. Buying whatever the new Sony gizmo of the day is is more important to them. Microsoft has had endless spyware fiascos, and people still routinely buy Windows, as long as they can play their games or run Office, that's all that matters to most of them. Then there have been scandals like Enron, where the execs knew that they were doing something that was clearly illegal, and that their company really would be devastated if what they did was ever revealed. These "smartest people in the room" did it anyway. Corporate history is full of just such deceptive and destructive practices. I'm not sure I'd put Facebook above that sort of thing, a priori.

ryandrake 9y ago
Exactly. People would be outraged! and they will happily log into Facebook to post their outrage about Facebook.
- Trundle 9y ago
  I remember when some news broke about Facebook doing something or other a year ago and the common response seemed to be to make an official sounding wall post saying "I do not give Facebook the right to do X with my data", sort of like Michael Scott yelling "I declare bankruptcy!" I can see that happening again with voice recordings.
herogreen 9y ago
Speaking of badware: last week I found Mac Afee installed on the laptop of a relative that I manage. I assured me that he had not installed it himself (I had not installed anything actually). Could it have come from windows updates ?
- plaguuuuuu 9y ago
  if you manage their device there's a great chance they have no fucking idea what they're doing and could easily have installed it unintentionally

dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago

Uber broke almost every moral rule and still everybody's using it.

schaefer 9y ago
I refuse to ever install the Uber app, specifically because of their conduct. So not literally everyone... but still many.
- yorby 9y ago
  I can see someone having to install the uber app... but having to install the facebook app? just use the web app... that might be possible with uber too but I'm not sure because I don't use uber
  - icebraining 9y ago
    m.uber.com works fine without installing anything.
- CaptainZapp 9y ago
  The Uber app was "helpfully" pre-installed by Microsoft on my Lumia 950. It was the second to go, just after Facebook.

falcolas 9y ago

> being caught red handed would be devastating from a public opinion perspective For what it's worth, this public opinion backlash has not appeared with other companies: "Of course we're not working on leaked project [x]". "Look at project [x] we're working on!" Even Facebook's own under-disclosed psychological experiments have been largely forgotten; Facebook has suffered few if any long-term ill effects from it.

fjsolwmv 9y ago
The psychological experiments scandal was a nothingburger from the start. Facebook is not an academic research institution. They already operate with user's consent. Every business that engages in advertising or product design is performing psychological experiments.

z3t4 9y ago

Their customers love it, and with customers I mean advertisers. For users to leave there must be somewhere to leave to. And there needs to be another business model that does not depend on marketing. Maybe selling actual hardware, with built in social media.

Spooky23 9y ago

Hubris is powerful. Look at the dumb behavior exhibited by Uber as an example.

yAnonymous 9y ago

How much worse would being caught lying be compared to straight up admitting it? I'd say it's worth the risk for them.