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The last thing to install on ones phone is FB app - technically one gives up all privacy. If you need to use FB then stick to browser and clear browser data aft

The last thing to install on ones phone is FB app - technically one gives up all privacy. If you need to use FB then stick to browser and clear browser data afterwards.

justinhj 9y ago
I also have Wechat :)
harryf 9y ago
It's potentially not just the app. The Facebook SDK is embedded in probably 50%+ of _all_ the apps we use e.g. In top 10 most popular cocoapods - https://libraries.io/search?order=desc&platforms=CocoaPods&sort=rank https://libraries.io/search?order=desc&platforms=CocoaPods&s... - the FBSDKCoreKit - https://libraries.io/cocoapods/FBSDKCoreKit https://libraries.io/cocoapods/FBSDKCoreKit
- tzahola 9y ago
  But that’s open source and can be audited.
  - harryf 9y ago
    Yes but there's a gap between "can be audited" and "is being audited". If they got caught doing anything malign they can just pull the "oooops we didn't mean to" defence as they've done before[1] - their track record here says "if we can find a way, we're at least going to experiment with it" Also consider this in the light of recent EU rulings on Facebooks tracking of non-users via the Like button on websites being an illegal violation of privacy[2]. As usual the law lags the technology by many years - was the EU even aware of the Facebook mobile SDK being wisely installed in many 3rd party apps when they made this ruling? (edit: reading the report from the University of Leuven it seems they were at least aware of the implications of things like Facebooks Mobile Advertiser network) [1] https://www.google.ch/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebook-says-it-fixed-a-bug-that-caused-silent-audio-to-vampire-your-iphone-battery/amp/ https://www.google.ch/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebo... [2] https://www.google.ch/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/31/facebook-tracks-all-visitors-breaching-eu-law-report https://www.google.ch/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2...
vinchuco 9y ago
Sometimes it even comes pre-installed, for your convenience ;)
lanius 9y ago
When I was still on Facebook, I used a 3rd-party Facebook app alternative. I forget which one exactly, but I distinctly remember being impressed that it barely needed any permissions.
- whyagaindavid 9y ago
  You mean tinfoil for Facebook?
jcfrei 9y ago
You also give up most of your privacy if you buy a smartphone with an OS made by Apple or Google.
- briandear 9y ago
  Citation needed if you're going to include Apple in that group. Here's Apple's privacy policy: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ And yes, it's followed relentlessly.
  - jcfrei 9y ago
    Seems like I've been a bit too quick to judge. Apple has made some changes to reduce fingerprinting of devices: https://stackoverflow.com/a/6993440/321749 https://stackoverflow.com/a/6993440/321749
    - aylmao 9y ago
      Sidenote: this applies to 3rd party apps. Lets remember Apple vs. Google is very real, so playing the privacy advocate is not only good marketing for Apple, but also allows them to interfere in Google's ability to track users like this. Ad blocking is another example; allowing it in iOS was probably a strong blow against Google. Apple can and does collect a lot of data from your phone. Their business might not rely as much on individual targeting, but they still want to understand users as much as possible and have the means to do so.
  - aylmao 9y ago
    Apple was involved in a very controversial case in 2011 [1]. IIRC, the resolution involved nothing about them claiming that tracking user location without their consent was bad, and focused only on the fact that the data was easily accessible a by 3rd parties. In fact, they still collect tonnes of data from phones, but now they're more careful about the data not being user-accessible. A few quotes from the link you posted to their privacy policy: > "We also collect data in a form that does not, on its own, permit direct association with any specific individual." The "on its own" sounds a little scapegoat-y tbh. > "We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used" You can learn and infer a lot from those vectors. Towards the end of the paragraph they also mention that they use this data, amongst other things, to deliver "better advertising". > "We may collect information regarding customer activities on our website, iCloud services, our iTunes Store, App Store, Mac App Store, App Store for Apple TV and iBooks Stores and from our other products and services. Aggregated data is considered non‑personal information for the purposes of this Privacy Policy." Ofc. > "We may collect and store details of how you use our services, including search queries. [...] Except in limited instances to ensure quality of our services over the Internet, such information will not be associated with your IP address." Ensuring "quality of services over the Internet" is _incredibly_ broad. For a company like Apple it could apply pretty much to anything tbh. A lot of people don't know Apple collects all this data; and part of it is probably the fact you can't disable this collection. Only App usage, the one that might also be shared with 3rd party devs, is optional. Thinking Apple doesn't take part on Google or Facebook scale data collecting because they sell phones and not ads is not only inaccurate (they do sell ads), but also a little naive. Data is very valuable. I'm not saying Apple doesn't care about privacy; their business model relies a less on individual targeting than Google or Facebook, but they're also in on the game of understanding users as much as possible, and given they control the phone they're in very deep. [1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-location-without-your-consent-and-why-it-matters/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-you...

The last thing to install on ones phone is FB app - technically one gives up all privacy. If you need to use FB then stick to browser and clear browser data afterwards.

justinhj 9y ago

I also have Wechat :)

harryf 9y ago

It's potentially not just the app. The Facebook SDK is embedded in probably 50%+ of _all_ the apps we use e.g. In top 10 most popular cocoapods - https://libraries.io/search?order=desc&platforms=CocoaPods&sort=rank https://libraries.io/search?order=desc&platforms=CocoaPods&s... - the FBSDKCoreKit - https://libraries.io/cocoapods/FBSDKCoreKit https://libraries.io/cocoapods/FBSDKCoreKit

tzahola 9y ago
But that’s open source and can be audited.
- harryf 9y ago
  Yes but there's a gap between "can be audited" and "is being audited". If they got caught doing anything malign they can just pull the "oooops we didn't mean to" defence as they've done before[1] - their track record here says "if we can find a way, we're at least going to experiment with it" Also consider this in the light of recent EU rulings on Facebooks tracking of non-users via the Like button on websites being an illegal violation of privacy[2]. As usual the law lags the technology by many years - was the EU even aware of the Facebook mobile SDK being wisely installed in many 3rd party apps when they made this ruling? (edit: reading the report from the University of Leuven it seems they were at least aware of the implications of things like Facebooks Mobile Advertiser network) [1] https://www.google.ch/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebook-says-it-fixed-a-bug-that-caused-silent-audio-to-vampire-your-iphone-battery/amp/ https://www.google.ch/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2015/10/22/facebo... [2] https://www.google.ch/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/31/facebook-tracks-all-visitors-breaching-eu-law-report https://www.google.ch/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2...

vinchuco 9y ago

Sometimes it even comes pre-installed, for your convenience ;)

lanius 9y ago

When I was still on Facebook, I used a 3rd-party Facebook app alternative. I forget which one exactly, but I distinctly remember being impressed that it barely needed any permissions.

whyagaindavid 9y ago
You mean tinfoil for Facebook?

jcfrei 9y ago

You also give up most of your privacy if you buy a smartphone with an OS made by Apple or Google.

briandear 9y ago
Citation needed if you're going to include Apple in that group. Here's Apple's privacy policy: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ And yes, it's followed relentlessly.
- jcfrei 9y ago
  Seems like I've been a bit too quick to judge. Apple has made some changes to reduce fingerprinting of devices: https://stackoverflow.com/a/6993440/321749 https://stackoverflow.com/a/6993440/321749
  - aylmao 9y ago
    Sidenote: this applies to 3rd party apps. Lets remember Apple vs. Google is very real, so playing the privacy advocate is not only good marketing for Apple, but also allows them to interfere in Google's ability to track users like this. Ad blocking is another example; allowing it in iOS was probably a strong blow against Google. Apple can and does collect a lot of data from your phone. Their business might not rely as much on individual targeting, but they still want to understand users as much as possible and have the means to do so.
- aylmao 9y ago
  Apple was involved in a very controversial case in 2011 [1]. IIRC, the resolution involved nothing about them claiming that tracking user location without their consent was bad, and focused only on the fact that the data was easily accessible a by 3rd parties. In fact, they still collect tonnes of data from phones, but now they're more careful about the data not being user-accessible. A few quotes from the link you posted to their privacy policy: > "We also collect data in a form that does not, on its own, permit direct association with any specific individual." The "on its own" sounds a little scapegoat-y tbh. > "We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used" You can learn and infer a lot from those vectors. Towards the end of the paragraph they also mention that they use this data, amongst other things, to deliver "better advertising". > "We may collect information regarding customer activities on our website, iCloud services, our iTunes Store, App Store, Mac App Store, App Store for Apple TV and iBooks Stores and from our other products and services. Aggregated data is considered non‑personal information for the purposes of this Privacy Policy." Ofc. > "We may collect and store details of how you use our services, including search queries. [...] Except in limited instances to ensure quality of our services over the Internet, such information will not be associated with your IP address." Ensuring "quality of services over the Internet" is _incredibly_ broad. For a company like Apple it could apply pretty much to anything tbh. A lot of people don't know Apple collects all this data; and part of it is probably the fact you can't disable this collection. Only App usage, the one that might also be shared with 3rd party devs, is optional. Thinking Apple doesn't take part on Google or Facebook scale data collecting because they sell phones and not ads is not only inaccurate (they do sell ads), but also a little naive. Data is very valuable. I'm not saying Apple doesn't care about privacy; their business model relies a less on individual targeting than Google or Facebook, but they're also in on the game of understanding users as much as possible, and given they control the phone they're in very deep. [1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-location-without-your-consent-and-why-it-matters/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-you...