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Hey HN, I created Kitspace in an effort to help open source electronics be a bit more like open source software. The aim is to make it as easy as possible to re

by kasbah 9y ago

Hey HN, I created Kitspace in an effort to help open source electronics be a bit more like open source software. The aim is to make it as easy as possible to replicate designs without the creator having to bag components to make kits. I have been working on this for a number of years already (started with the browser extension) and have a few things in the pipeline such as integrating a GitLab back-end for easier file-uploads and adding a bill of materials editor. The source code is available at https://github.com/monostable/kitspace https://github.com/monostable/kitspace (give it a star if you like it - it really helps a lot with grant applications). There is an alpha version of a BOM builder tool at: https://bom-builder.kitspace.org https://bom-builder.kitspace.org. Feel free to ask for more details of course :)

abetusk 9y ago
This is so great. Do you mind reporting how many sales you've had so far (to-date, per-month, etc.)? Have you thought about trying to do some visual diffing to get it closer to the source version control analogy? Do you do a lot of hand curation of the repositories on there?
- kasbah 9y ago
  Hey Abe (I follow you on GitHub!). We don't actually sell anything on Kitspace. Since about a month we have affiliate links to Aisler.net and PCBWay. So far I have earned about 7 Euros through links to Aisler.net and waiting on the numbers from PCBWay. I have spent about 4000 Euros on the site and a lot of my time so definitely running at a net loss still :) Yes, I totally can't wait to take more advantage of the Git back-end! I like the idea of visual diffs though they can have problems (if you move the entire design by 1mm say). Just having tagged versions will be the first step and we can experiment after that. I have been pushing people to better document the projects and helping with getting the required files into place (and sometime helping them use Git/GitHub). I have been doing what I call guerrilla BOM building (never shout this at an airport!) where I sort out an OSHW project's bill of materials and send a PR. I was doing some of this today: [1][2]. I will be applying for grants to do more of this and maybe get some help with it. [1]: https://github.com/prometheus-science/Flypi/pull/2 https://github.com/prometheus-science/Flypi/pull/2 [2]: https://github.com/rwb27/openflexure_nano_motor_controller/pull/18 https://github.com/rwb27/openflexure_nano_motor_controller/p...
  - abetusk 9y ago
    Awesome on the guerrilla BOMs! I was wondering more about how many orders have gone through your system and how many people have ordered PCBs and parts through you site. Do you know what those numbers roughly are? I see you have some kind of examples for how to organize projects in your README. Do you have some more formalized guidelines for recommended 'best practices' for organizing open hardware projects? Would you consider making one if you don't have it already? Interesting, looking around there's some people playing around with visual diffs [1] [2]. Maybe a good first step is to just have a multi-layer view of the image with different colors. Are you going to attend OHS in Boston this year? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CZEszO9xpA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CZEszO9xpA [2] http://www.viewplot.com/info_files/vpl_faq/compare.html http://www.viewplot.com/info_files/vpl_faq/compare.html
    - kasbah 9y ago
      Ah nice, hadn't seen those two. The first one I came across was [1] and I have been fascinated with the idea ever since. I kind of agree with Dave Vandenbout [2] though in that it might not scale. I kind of shifted my fascination towards using code to do PCB designs and giving talks about that [3]. Best practices, it's a good idea, but it is hard enough to get people to do the minimal thing that I came up with for Kitspace and I think only certain kinds of people will read a best practices guide. At the Global Open Science Hardware Gathering [4] we are trying to come up with more general best practices for open source hardware though and doing a more focused one for electronics would be worthwhile anyway. About attending OHS, not unless I can get some travel funding :( [1]: https://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/improving-open-source-hardware-visual-diffs/ https://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/improving-open-source-... [2]: http://www.xess.com/blog/schematics-really/ http://www.xess.com/blog/schematics-really/ [3]: https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_pcb_code/ https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_pcb_code/ [4]: http://openhardware.science/gosh-manifesto/ http://openhardware.science/gosh-manifesto/
ZenoArrow 9y ago
Thanks for sharing Kitspace on HN, your site looks promising. At first I thought it may be hard to gain traction over the established players (such as Tindie), but after looking into how the site works it looks like it has the potential to lower the cost for acquiring the hardware, as well as reduce the customer support burden for open hardware creators. Nice work! Any short term plans to expand the site further? I had thought that selling solder stencils perhaps might be a good optional extra for larger boards, but I guess they could prove a little expensive. Cheapest I've found with a quick search was this site: https://www.oshstencils.com/ https://www.oshstencils.com/
- borgel 9y ago
  From the fabs I usually use (PCBWay, JLCPCB) I've found it's usually cheapest to order them along with the PCBs themselves. On PCBWay they're about $10. JLCPCB they're $9.
- kasbah 9y ago
  Cheers! I don't think it's in competition with Tindie either. I want the site to serve a niche of creators that can't be bothered with the rest (i.e. packing and selling). I think this opens up a world of designs that don't have commercial viability. My special areas of interest are music gear and scientific instrumentation (but of course that doesn't dictate what types of designs people decide to put up). The cost for a one-off order is always more than something that is made multiple times so I it's not a question of competing on price. Kitspace currently optimizes for one-off orders (batching orders of a single design for multiple people would be interesting too though). I am curious, how do you think it lowers the support burden? Do you mean they can just say: "you soldered it, I don't know, works for me" or is it something more? :D I think the stencils are best left to the batching services and Aisler and PCBway, which are linked from Kitspace, offer them too (and they should pick out the relevant solder-paste Gerber files). EDIT: Oh, and regarding planned features check: https://github.com/monostable/kitspace#planned https://github.com/monostable/kitspace#planned and the work-in-progess (WIP) pull-requests: https://github.com/monostable/kitspace/pulls https://github.com/monostable/kitspace/pulls
  - 9y ago

by kasbah 9y ago

abetusk 9y ago

This is so great. Do you mind reporting how many sales you've had so far (to-date, per-month, etc.)? Have you thought about trying to do some visual diffing to get it closer to the source version control analogy? Do you do a lot of hand curation of the repositories on there?

kasbah 9y ago
Hey Abe (I follow you on GitHub!). We don't actually sell anything on Kitspace. Since about a month we have affiliate links to Aisler.net and PCBWay. So far I have earned about 7 Euros through links to Aisler.net and waiting on the numbers from PCBWay. I have spent about 4000 Euros on the site and a lot of my time so definitely running at a net loss still :) Yes, I totally can't wait to take more advantage of the Git back-end! I like the idea of visual diffs though they can have problems (if you move the entire design by 1mm say). Just having tagged versions will be the first step and we can experiment after that. I have been pushing people to better document the projects and helping with getting the required files into place (and sometime helping them use Git/GitHub). I have been doing what I call guerrilla BOM building (never shout this at an airport!) where I sort out an OSHW project's bill of materials and send a PR. I was doing some of this today: [1][2]. I will be applying for grants to do more of this and maybe get some help with it. [1]: https://github.com/prometheus-science/Flypi/pull/2 https://github.com/prometheus-science/Flypi/pull/2 [2]: https://github.com/rwb27/openflexure_nano_motor_controller/pull/18 https://github.com/rwb27/openflexure_nano_motor_controller/p...
- abetusk 9y ago
  Awesome on the guerrilla BOMs! I was wondering more about how many orders have gone through your system and how many people have ordered PCBs and parts through you site. Do you know what those numbers roughly are? I see you have some kind of examples for how to organize projects in your README. Do you have some more formalized guidelines for recommended 'best practices' for organizing open hardware projects? Would you consider making one if you don't have it already? Interesting, looking around there's some people playing around with visual diffs [1] [2]. Maybe a good first step is to just have a multi-layer view of the image with different colors. Are you going to attend OHS in Boston this year? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CZEszO9xpA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CZEszO9xpA [2] http://www.viewplot.com/info_files/vpl_faq/compare.html http://www.viewplot.com/info_files/vpl_faq/compare.html
  - kasbah 9y ago
    Ah nice, hadn't seen those two. The first one I came across was [1] and I have been fascinated with the idea ever since. I kind of agree with Dave Vandenbout [2] though in that it might not scale. I kind of shifted my fascination towards using code to do PCB designs and giving talks about that [3]. Best practices, it's a good idea, but it is hard enough to get people to do the minimal thing that I came up with for Kitspace and I think only certain kinds of people will read a best practices guide. At the Global Open Science Hardware Gathering [4] we are trying to come up with more general best practices for open source hardware though and doing a more focused one for electronics would be worthwhile anyway. About attending OHS, not unless I can get some travel funding :( [1]: https://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/improving-open-source-hardware-visual-diffs/ https://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/improving-open-source-... [2]: http://www.xess.com/blog/schematics-really/ http://www.xess.com/blog/schematics-really/ [3]: https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_pcb_code/ https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_pcb_code/ [4]: http://openhardware.science/gosh-manifesto/ http://openhardware.science/gosh-manifesto/

ZenoArrow 9y ago

Thanks for sharing Kitspace on HN, your site looks promising. At first I thought it may be hard to gain traction over the established players (such as Tindie), but after looking into how the site works it looks like it has the potential to lower the cost for acquiring the hardware, as well as reduce the customer support burden for open hardware creators. Nice work! Any short term plans to expand the site further? I had thought that selling solder stencils perhaps might be a good optional extra for larger boards, but I guess they could prove a little expensive. Cheapest I've found with a quick search was this site: https://www.oshstencils.com/ https://www.oshstencils.com/

borgel 9y ago
From the fabs I usually use (PCBWay, JLCPCB) I've found it's usually cheapest to order them along with the PCBs themselves. On PCBWay they're about $10. JLCPCB they're $9.
kasbah 9y ago
Cheers! I don't think it's in competition with Tindie either. I want the site to serve a niche of creators that can't be bothered with the rest (i.e. packing and selling). I think this opens up a world of designs that don't have commercial viability. My special areas of interest are music gear and scientific instrumentation (but of course that doesn't dictate what types of designs people decide to put up). The cost for a one-off order is always more than something that is made multiple times so I it's not a question of competing on price. Kitspace currently optimizes for one-off orders (batching orders of a single design for multiple people would be interesting too though). I am curious, how do you think it lowers the support burden? Do you mean they can just say: "you soldered it, I don't know, works for me" or is it something more? :D I think the stencils are best left to the batching services and Aisler and PCBway, which are linked from Kitspace, offer them too (and they should pick out the relevant solder-paste Gerber files). EDIT: Oh, and regarding planned features check: https://github.com/monostable/kitspace#planned https://github.com/monostable/kitspace#planned and the work-in-progess (WIP) pull-requests: https://github.com/monostable/kitspace/pulls https://github.com/monostable/kitspace/pulls
- 9y ago