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I am one of the 13k that is that little red guy. I just migrated my openid provider to a docker container and changed the certificate to LetsEncrypt. Slashdot

I am one of the 13k that is that little red guy. I just migrated my openid provider to a docker container and changed the certificate to LetsEncrypt. Slashdot removed support, as did shirt woot and deletionpedia. Freecode and gitorious are gone. After this, the only things I'll have left on openid will be pipy (which doesn't seem to work) and openstreetmaps. I understand why and the technical debt involved, but this still makes me very sad. We're moving in the wrong direction. We're going away from open, federated, distributed standards and back to closed, wall-gardened, proprietary, massive identity providers.

nathan_long 9y ago
> We're going away from open, federated, distributed standards and back to closed, wall-gardened, proprietary, massive identity providers. I'm not. I just create an email and password for each site I use. A password manager means that's not a big deal. EDIT: I meant to say I create an account based on email and password. I don't actually create a separate email address per site.
- abricot 9y ago
  I create an email for every site. I can recommend it.
  - jackweirdy 9y ago
    Do you do this programmatically? Or with the +suffix@.... trick?
    - ibz 9y ago
      Neither nor. I have my own domain. Every website gets <website>@mydomain. Every email @mydomain gets forwarded to my primary email. As simple as that.
      - jackweirdy 9y ago
        Nice! Another domain owner here. Never thought to have a sink-all mailbox. Thanks for sharing.
        techdragon 9y ago
        I used to use this trick, but got sick of fighting the bulk spam sent to admin@, postmaster@, etc. the filters got most of it, but damn it was annoying whenever they changed tactics and a small flood would sneak by before being identified by the filters and further spam prevented.
        archi42 9y ago
        That's why I moved from maintaining my own mail server (with spam filter and activate sync) to a provider. I still own the domain and have a catch-all configured for per-account mail addresses on a subdomain with the mail going to bulk folder on my primary IMAP. The subdomain also prevents the dumbfire admin@... spam. Only spam I get is on leaked addresses.
        brobert 9y ago
        Instead of using <service>@, sign-up with <service><secret>@ and forward only the messages that match *<secret>@
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - ibz 9y ago
        Yeah, the + trick is not that great, because it is quite obvious what your real email is. This way, not so much. One could of course still guess that you are using this trick when they see that your email matches their domain name. If you're paranoid about that, you could of course just use <random string>@yourdomain for every login. And store that in your password manager.
    - abricot 9y ago
      Add the email to a virtual address config file.
auxbuss 9y ago
You seem to misunderstand technical debt [0]. There is no technical debt here. There is a maintenance overhead – as there is with every line of code – which SO no longer wish to support. I do agree that we are going in the wrong direction, and that we should be building open, federated, distributed protocols/standards. However, OpenID is not a good example of such given its dependencies. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt
- Bromskloss 9y ago
  > OpenID is not a good example of such given its dependencies. What is meant by "dependencies" here?
scrollaway 9y ago
> We're moving in the wrong direction. The thing is, too often do people lament the loss of federated/open systems and quickly jump on a blame train spanning the users who "are making the wrong choices by not using the 'obviously better, open systems' and the corporations who 'push their evil walled gardens onto users'". But few people actually think about what is actually causing these shifts. Users don't usually care about open vs. closed, and seldom care about ideology. They want their shit to work without hassle, to look good, to achieve what they want. I see so many people blaming users and companies for moving away from IRC, onto systems like Discord and Slack. Why you gotta blame the consumers when they are merely switching to obviously better alternatives? IRC is not a suitable replacement for Discord today, and systems like XMPP and OpenID are massive fucking messes. They don't get used because they're too hard to use. Usability is a feature. Honestly, I think proprietary solutions win so often because they value pragmatism by nature, whereas open solutions tend to value ideology. Sometimes, you have visionaries at the helm who do value pragmatism and you end up with the best of both worlds. Torvalds is an excellent example: He produces pragmatic, open software and his way, although not "ideologically pure", has done more to promote free software than Stallman ever has. Not to point fingers; I definitely know there are Stallman-wannabees floating around the site who are in it purely to feel superior to others, and be able to wag their finger and make fun of those using "crass, proprietary software". They don't try to understand why consumers use the proprietary solutions (they can't try, because they refuse to use them). And at the end of the day, the needle hasn't moved. Anyway, all that to say, we're moving in the wrong direction because too many people cling onto the systems that have obviously lost (openid and IRC) without considering why consumers use oauth2 and slack. It's armchair lamenting.
- simaracode 9y ago
  Agree 100% the reality is more poignant when you go out of the tech bubble. Also if those open standards affect product maintainability vs simple integrations with less code, projects will tend to avoid it. This is also Why complex Piracy/CD Ripping lost steam with services like Spotify/Netflix in countries with big piracy rings. Good user experience trumps ideology.
- mcguire 9y ago

nathan_long 9y ago

> We're going away from open, federated, distributed standards and back to closed, wall-gardened, proprietary, massive identity providers. I'm not. I just create an email and password for each site I use. A password manager means that's not a big deal. EDIT: I meant to say I create an account based on email and password. I don't actually create a separate email address per site.

abricot 9y ago
I create an email for every site. I can recommend it.
- jackweirdy 9y ago
  Do you do this programmatically? Or with the +suffix@.... trick?
  - ibz 9y ago
    Neither nor. I have my own domain. Every website gets <website>@mydomain. Every email @mydomain gets forwarded to my primary email. As simple as that.
    - jackweirdy 9y ago
      Nice! Another domain owner here. Never thought to have a sink-all mailbox. Thanks for sharing.
      - techdragon 9y ago
        I used to use this trick, but got sick of fighting the bulk spam sent to admin@, postmaster@, etc. the filters got most of it, but damn it was annoying whenever they changed tactics and a small flood would sneak by before being identified by the filters and further spam prevented.
        archi42 9y ago
        That's why I moved from maintaining my own mail server (with spam filter and activate sync) to a provider. I still own the domain and have a catch-all configured for per-account mail addresses on a subdomain with the mail going to bulk folder on my primary IMAP. The subdomain also prevents the dumbfire admin@... spam. Only spam I get is on leaked addresses.
        brobert 9y ago
        Instead of using <service>@, sign-up with <service><secret>@ and forward only the messages that match *<secret>@
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - ibz 9y ago
      Yeah, the + trick is not that great, because it is quite obvious what your real email is. This way, not so much. One could of course still guess that you are using this trick when they see that your email matches their domain name. If you're paranoid about that, you could of course just use <random string>@yourdomain for every login. And store that in your password manager.
  - abricot 9y ago
    Add the email to a virtual address config file.

auxbuss 9y ago

You seem to misunderstand technical debt [0]. There is no technical debt here. There is a maintenance overhead – as there is with every line of code – which SO no longer wish to support. I do agree that we are going in the wrong direction, and that we should be building open, federated, distributed protocols/standards. However, OpenID is not a good example of such given its dependencies. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt

Bromskloss 9y ago
> OpenID is not a good example of such given its dependencies. What is meant by "dependencies" here?

scrollaway 9y ago

> We're moving in the wrong direction. The thing is, too often do people lament the loss of federated/open systems and quickly jump on a blame train spanning the users who "are making the wrong choices by not using the 'obviously better, open systems' and the corporations who 'push their evil walled gardens onto users'". But few people actually think about what is actually causing these shifts. Users don't usually care about open vs. closed, and seldom care about ideology. They want their shit to work without hassle, to look good, to achieve what they want. I see so many people blaming users and companies for moving away from IRC, onto systems like Discord and Slack. Why you gotta blame the consumers when they are merely switching to obviously better alternatives? IRC is not a suitable replacement for Discord today, and systems like XMPP and OpenID are massive fucking messes. They don't get used because they're too hard to use. Usability is a feature. Honestly, I think proprietary solutions win so often because they value pragmatism by nature, whereas open solutions tend to value ideology. Sometimes, you have visionaries at the helm who do value pragmatism and you end up with the best of both worlds. Torvalds is an excellent example: He produces pragmatic, open software and his way, although not "ideologically pure", has done more to promote free software than Stallman ever has. Not to point fingers; I definitely know there are Stallman-wannabees floating around the site who are in it purely to feel superior to others, and be able to wag their finger and make fun of those using "crass, proprietary software". They don't try to understand why consumers use the proprietary solutions (they can't try, because they refuse to use them). And at the end of the day, the needle hasn't moved. Anyway, all that to say, we're moving in the wrong direction because too many people cling onto the systems that have obviously lost (openid and IRC) without considering why consumers use oauth2 and slack. It's armchair lamenting.

simaracode 9y ago
Agree 100% the reality is more poignant when you go out of the tech bubble. Also if those open standards affect product maintainability vs simple integrations with less code, projects will tend to avoid it. This is also Why complex Piracy/CD Ripping lost steam with services like Spotify/Netflix in countries with big piracy rings. Good user experience trumps ideology.
mcguire 9y ago