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Socialism means using violence in the form of the state to deny people the power over their own bodies, or the power to own private property. Having a state, b

by lzw 16y ago

Socialism means using violence in the form of the state to deny people the power over their own bodies, or the power to own private property. Having a state, by definition is incompatible with anarchism. The whole "libertarians were orginally socialist" idea is just the latest in the strign of socialists attempting to coopt every movement. That someone thinks you can have anarchism and socialism at the same time boggles the mind. Anarchism means no government while socialism is a form of government incompatible with allowing free will.

steveklabnik 16y ago
> The whole "libertarians were orginally socialist" idea is just the latest Unless you consider 1840 the 'latest,' you're wrong. (EDIT: Sorry, 1840 was 'anarchist,' 1890 was 'libertarian.' The American version of 'libertarian' didn't come into use until 1950: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology) You're thinking only of state socialism, stateless socialism is totally different. And the basic definition of socialism says nothing about denying anyone anything: > Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.
- lzw 16y ago
  The only way to have "common" ownership is for the thugs who decide they represent the people to steal the property, generally at gunpoint. Libertarianism predates the 1840s. I've been hearing this argument for the past 20 years, and it is nonsense. Socialists seem to recognize no property rings even in the terms they use, but that is just dishonesty at some point.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    > Libertarianism predates the 1840s. > The use of the word 'libertarian' to describe a set of political positions can be tracked to the French cognate, "Libertaire", which was coined in 1857 by French anarchist communist Joseph Déjacque who used the term to distinguish his libertarian communist approach from the mutualism advocated by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology > The only way to have "common" ownership is for the thugs who decide they represent the people to steal the property, generally at gunpoint. What do you think about cooperatives? Who's the man with the gun there?
    - lzw 16y ago
      Not only are you ignorant, and unwilling to be enlightened, but your are dishonest as well. Bottom line is, you want to use violence to make ores subsidize your lifestyle, and that makes you scum. Arguing with your rationalizations of this ideology is pointless because you don't have any arguments, just propaganda. It really is pathetic.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        Thank you for the discussion. I'm not going to respond to you any more.

by lzw 16y ago

steveklabnik 16y ago

> The whole "libertarians were orginally socialist" idea is just the latest Unless you consider 1840 the 'latest,' you're wrong. (EDIT: Sorry, 1840 was 'anarchist,' 1890 was 'libertarian.' The American version of 'libertarian' didn't come into use until 1950: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology) You're thinking only of state socialism, stateless socialism is totally different. And the basic definition of socialism says nothing about denying anyone anything: > Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.

lzw 16y ago
The only way to have "common" ownership is for the thugs who decide they represent the people to steal the property, generally at gunpoint. Libertarianism predates the 1840s. I've been hearing this argument for the past 20 years, and it is nonsense. Socialists seem to recognize no property rings even in the terms they use, but that is just dishonesty at some point.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  > Libertarianism predates the 1840s. > The use of the word 'libertarian' to describe a set of political positions can be tracked to the French cognate, "Libertaire", which was coined in 1857 by French anarchist communist Joseph Déjacque who used the term to distinguish his libertarian communist approach from the mutualism advocated by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Etymology > The only way to have "common" ownership is for the thugs who decide they represent the people to steal the property, generally at gunpoint. What do you think about cooperatives? Who's the man with the gun there?
  - lzw 16y ago
    Not only are you ignorant, and unwilling to be enlightened, but your are dishonest as well. Bottom line is, you want to use violence to make ores subsidize your lifestyle, and that makes you scum. Arguing with your rationalizations of this ideology is pointless because you don't have any arguments, just propaganda. It really is pathetic.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      Thank you for the discussion. I'm not going to respond to you any more.