4 ms·

yet you can't recall exactly what it was like to be that adolescent since you would have had to create an exact copy of your brain/body at that point in your li

by narag 9y ago

yet you can't recall exactly what it was like to be that adolescent since you would have had to create an exact copy of your brain/body at that point in your life to have access the same context. Or I could just simply remember what I felt. I actually do. And to people talking about writing down your thoughts, the thing that always surprises me when reading my texts from decades ago, is how similar they were to my current thoughts. Circumstances are very different, I'm not.

alexashka 9y ago
the thing that always surprises me when reading my texts from decades ago, is how similar they were to my current thoughts. Circumstances are very different, I'm not. I've had the exact opposite experience. I blush at the posts I see on facebook from what I've posted 2-3 years back, and that's stuff that I had given a little thought to, before posting. If I kept a diary/journal, I'd be perpetually embarrassed of my past trail of thoughts.
- jm__87 9y ago
  I'm more or less in the same boat as you :). But to look at it in a more positive light, that discomfort at looking at your past self just shows how far you've come. So it can also be an indicator you're on the right track.
- da_chicken 9y ago
  Hm. I used to be the same, but now I look back and I'm no longer embarrassed. I'm already so hard on myself about everything, I really don't want yet another thing to beat myself up about. What's the use in being upset because I was wrong in the past? I'm wrong about things every day. All I can do is try to do better. I think one key was that I have gone back and read something that I wrote which I no longer remember writing that genuinely impresses me. I've stumbled upon my own answers on, say, StackOverflow, or found old posts on discussion boards before for topics I find interesting, or found some old scripts I wrote long ago that do something I now have need of. When I've had a question that needed an answer and discovered that my own answer from years ago is the best one I can find, it feels pretty good. When the argument I've used in the past is still well-reasoned, that also feels pretty good. When the code I used in the past was correct and complete and well commented, that really feels good. No, not everything I've done before has been good quality, but it's a lot of fun to stumble on your own things that are good quality. It also makes it easier to forgive yourself for all the errors that you've made in your life.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - skunkworks 9y ago
    Agree wholeheartedly. I've posted my fair share of cringeworthy things over the years, but that has improved as my sense of self-identity has stabilized and my insecurities have faded. What makes me cringe is usually not the content of the message but the way that I say it -- a tone of superiority, condescension, anger, self-pity, or attention seeking. Without being too reductive, my feelings about myself have changed and that's made it easier to be nicer to myself and by extension to others.
- orbitur 9y ago
  From age 12 to 17, I was a super prolific "poet." I had four binders full of looseleaf pages of all kinds of writing. I had also kept every note that my girlfriends had given to me during that time. Around age 22, I found them in my closet, and I was overcome with shame and embarrassment. I immediately burned them all. More than a decade after burning them, there's a little bit of me that wishes I hadn't, but the feeling of embarrassment is so strong, I'm cringing thinking about some lines now. I would never want to show them to anyone. I clearly remember writing some of it, the environment where I wrote it, the events that inspired the writing, the path my brain took (and how that path was determined) for the lines I wrote, the pain in my hand from gripping the pen too tight for too long. I remember exactly how I felt then. But I am not that person. I don't like who that person was. I envy anyone who isn't ashamed of their previous writing.
NervousTechno 9y ago
> Or I could just simply remember what I felt. I actually do Even eidetic memory isn't as perfect as media likes to pretend. It's unlikely that you have anything but a faint model of what you think you were like.
- jm__87 9y ago
  'Thinking Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kahneman has an interesting bit on experience vs memory and how this affects our judgement. The two can differ quite a bit, based on the research presented in this book.
  - fny 9y ago
    I'm very suspicious of treating the Kahneman system 1, system 2 as any more than a hypothesis since even he admits it's a model without any biological basis. What's worse is that most of the research he cites come from studies with almost no replication. The hot-hand fallacy is perhaps my favorite example of experimentally debunked wisdom from that book.[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-hand_fallacy#Recent_research_in_support_of_hot_hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-hand_fallacy#Recent_resear...
    - jm__87 9y ago
      This has nothing to do with system 1 vs system 2, it is what you experience vs what you remember from that experience.
- mistermann 9y ago
  How would you, or anyone, know with a high level of certainty that it is unlikely that he has anything but a faint model? You can point to studies I imagine, but how do we know those are correct? The topic isn't as deterministic as math or physics.
  - jm__87 9y ago
    To know exactly what the contents of your mind were at that time, you'd need to make a full copy of it, so there is a physical limitation there. You can certainly get approximations of how you felt, but we typically remember peak experiences better than mundane ones. This makes sense from the standpoint of evolution: if you remember what it felt like when you put your hand on the stovetop in vivid detail, you won't do it again. Remembering what it felt like when you walked down the street on October 5th, 1995 is less important because nothing happened, so you just discard it entirely. You can make an educated guess from some template of what walking down the street feels like and what the weather in early October feels like, but you're not going to remember that instance exactly as it happened.
quicratoric_28 9y ago
I agree with you on this. I remember how I felt. When I read my posts on Facebook or entries in my diary, no matter how cringe-worthy, I remember how I felt at the time.And they have evolved but along the similar path. It is not very different from how I think today, it doesn't seem like a different person now and then. I am still the same adolescent, but with more experience and better perspective. To the comments below: You can't say it is not valid or not the same as having an eidetic memory. It is not as simple as that. We are more than the sum of memories.
notabee 9y ago
Each recollection of a memory changes and affects further recollections. You likely have a need to feel that you have a consistent self-schema more than one actually exists. https://theconversation.com/the-instability-of-memory-how-your-brain-edits-your-recollections-22737 https://theconversation.com/the-instability-of-memory-how-yo...
maroonparty 9y ago
and also if you have changed you would know you have changed and i feel the same thing with the music where a song from my child hood invokes part of my brain with childhood thinking and i would know how i felt then and now and also that's when you know you have changed

by narag 9y ago

alexashka 9y ago

the thing that always surprises me when reading my texts from decades ago, is how similar they were to my current thoughts. Circumstances are very different, I'm not. I've had the exact opposite experience. I blush at the posts I see on facebook from what I've posted 2-3 years back, and that's stuff that I had given a little thought to, before posting. If I kept a diary/journal, I'd be perpetually embarrassed of my past trail of thoughts.

jm__87 9y ago
I'm more or less in the same boat as you :). But to look at it in a more positive light, that discomfort at looking at your past self just shows how far you've come. So it can also be an indicator you're on the right track.
da_chicken 9y ago
Hm. I used to be the same, but now I look back and I'm no longer embarrassed. I'm already so hard on myself about everything, I really don't want yet another thing to beat myself up about. What's the use in being upset because I was wrong in the past? I'm wrong about things every day. All I can do is try to do better. I think one key was that I have gone back and read something that I wrote which I no longer remember writing that genuinely impresses me. I've stumbled upon my own answers on, say, StackOverflow, or found old posts on discussion boards before for topics I find interesting, or found some old scripts I wrote long ago that do something I now have need of. When I've had a question that needed an answer and discovered that my own answer from years ago is the best one I can find, it feels pretty good. When the argument I've used in the past is still well-reasoned, that also feels pretty good. When the code I used in the past was correct and complete and well commented, that really feels good. No, not everything I've done before has been good quality, but it's a lot of fun to stumble on your own things that are good quality. It also makes it easier to forgive yourself for all the errors that you've made in your life.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- skunkworks 9y ago
  Agree wholeheartedly. I've posted my fair share of cringeworthy things over the years, but that has improved as my sense of self-identity has stabilized and my insecurities have faded. What makes me cringe is usually not the content of the message but the way that I say it -- a tone of superiority, condescension, anger, self-pity, or attention seeking. Without being too reductive, my feelings about myself have changed and that's made it easier to be nicer to myself and by extension to others.
orbitur 9y ago
From age 12 to 17, I was a super prolific "poet." I had four binders full of looseleaf pages of all kinds of writing. I had also kept every note that my girlfriends had given to me during that time. Around age 22, I found them in my closet, and I was overcome with shame and embarrassment. I immediately burned them all. More than a decade after burning them, there's a little bit of me that wishes I hadn't, but the feeling of embarrassment is so strong, I'm cringing thinking about some lines now. I would never want to show them to anyone. I clearly remember writing some of it, the environment where I wrote it, the events that inspired the writing, the path my brain took (and how that path was determined) for the lines I wrote, the pain in my hand from gripping the pen too tight for too long. I remember exactly how I felt then. But I am not that person. I don't like who that person was. I envy anyone who isn't ashamed of their previous writing.

NervousTechno 9y ago

> Or I could just simply remember what I felt. I actually do Even eidetic memory isn't as perfect as media likes to pretend. It's unlikely that you have anything but a faint model of what you think you were like.

jm__87 9y ago
'Thinking Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kahneman has an interesting bit on experience vs memory and how this affects our judgement. The two can differ quite a bit, based on the research presented in this book.
- fny 9y ago
  I'm very suspicious of treating the Kahneman system 1, system 2 as any more than a hypothesis since even he admits it's a model without any biological basis. What's worse is that most of the research he cites come from studies with almost no replication. The hot-hand fallacy is perhaps my favorite example of experimentally debunked wisdom from that book.[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-hand_fallacy#Recent_research_in_support_of_hot_hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-hand_fallacy#Recent_resear...
  - jm__87 9y ago
    This has nothing to do with system 1 vs system 2, it is what you experience vs what you remember from that experience.
mistermann 9y ago
How would you, or anyone, know with a high level of certainty that it is unlikely that he has anything but a faint model? You can point to studies I imagine, but how do we know those are correct? The topic isn't as deterministic as math or physics.
- jm__87 9y ago
  To know exactly what the contents of your mind were at that time, you'd need to make a full copy of it, so there is a physical limitation there. You can certainly get approximations of how you felt, but we typically remember peak experiences better than mundane ones. This makes sense from the standpoint of evolution: if you remember what it felt like when you put your hand on the stovetop in vivid detail, you won't do it again. Remembering what it felt like when you walked down the street on October 5th, 1995 is less important because nothing happened, so you just discard it entirely. You can make an educated guess from some template of what walking down the street feels like and what the weather in early October feels like, but you're not going to remember that instance exactly as it happened.

quicratoric_28 9y ago

I agree with you on this. I remember how I felt. When I read my posts on Facebook or entries in my diary, no matter how cringe-worthy, I remember how I felt at the time.And they have evolved but along the similar path. It is not very different from how I think today, it doesn't seem like a different person now and then. I am still the same adolescent, but with more experience and better perspective. To the comments below: You can't say it is not valid or not the same as having an eidetic memory. It is not as simple as that. We are more than the sum of memories.

notabee 9y ago

Each recollection of a memory changes and affects further recollections. You likely have a need to feel that you have a consistent self-schema more than one actually exists. https://theconversation.com/the-instability-of-memory-how-your-brain-edits-your-recollections-22737 https://theconversation.com/the-instability-of-memory-how-yo...

maroonparty 9y ago

and also if you have changed you would know you have changed and i feel the same thing with the music where a song from my child hood invokes part of my brain with childhood thinking and i would know how i felt then and now and also that's when you know you have changed