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how can energy go missing because of an energy war? I found this but I don't understand: "Kosovo has been using more power than it produces while Serbia, respon

by ju-st 9y ago

how can energy go missing because of an energy war? I found this but I don't understand: "Kosovo has been using more power than it produces while Serbia, responsible for balancing the Kosovo grid, has failed to do this, Nies said. As a result, Serbia has been free-riding on the system."

brownbat 9y ago
Suppose you and I have an agreement to generate power for our neighboring households. We each have solar which works most the time, but if it's too cloudy and we're both using a little more, we'll each fire up some temporary generators to cover the loss. You think I'm using more power than you expected when we started the agreement, but we're both spending the same amount on fuel and solar, so you decide not to fire up your generator. The system might still have enough power to basically run everything, but it might be sluggish, you might get "brown outs" which is when lights are on but dimmer, rather than going all the way to black. A brown out is a drastic, noticeable reduction in frequency. The grid is a bit like a wind up toy where there's a lot of potential energy in the system, but as you extract that energy for work and don't replace it, things (machines, lights) slow down before they stop. Now scale this up from two households to millions. Deviations in frequency might be incredibly slight, and not noticeable to the naked eye. But they accumulate over time if you've tied precision equipment to the grid. Theoretically, certain industrial machines designed to run at specific frequencies will wear faster or break when run off frequency for too long. I'm not sure if those effects generally happen at such small deviations or not.
caf 9y ago
Basically, there are people using power on the grid without paying anyone to generate a corresponding quantity. This means that less power is going into the grid than is being taken out of it, an amount that has accumulated since January to a bit over 100GWh. This missing 100GWh of energy has been collectively sapped from the inertia of the all spinning synchronous machines connected to the grid - mostly generators, but also motors - as a result of which they are spinning slower than they should be. Slowing spinning synchronous generators means a lower grid frequency.
- ju-st 9y ago
  Thanks, so its basically stolen at the generation level and thus you can't bill them 100GWh because that energy has never even appeared on the grid and technically nobody has consumed it.
  - caf 9y ago
    No, it has definitely been consumed. The only impediment to billing them is political.

by ju-st 9y ago

brownbat 9y ago

Suppose you and I have an agreement to generate power for our neighboring households. We each have solar which works most the time, but if it's too cloudy and we're both using a little more, we'll each fire up some temporary generators to cover the loss. You think I'm using more power than you expected when we started the agreement, but we're both spending the same amount on fuel and solar, so you decide not to fire up your generator. The system might still have enough power to basically run everything, but it might be sluggish, you might get "brown outs" which is when lights are on but dimmer, rather than going all the way to black. A brown out is a drastic, noticeable reduction in frequency. The grid is a bit like a wind up toy where there's a lot of potential energy in the system, but as you extract that energy for work and don't replace it, things (machines, lights) slow down before they stop. Now scale this up from two households to millions. Deviations in frequency might be incredibly slight, and not noticeable to the naked eye. But they accumulate over time if you've tied precision equipment to the grid. Theoretically, certain industrial machines designed to run at specific frequencies will wear faster or break when run off frequency for too long. I'm not sure if those effects generally happen at such small deviations or not.

caf 9y ago

Basically, there are people using power on the grid without paying anyone to generate a corresponding quantity. This means that less power is going into the grid than is being taken out of it, an amount that has accumulated since January to a bit over 100GWh. This missing 100GWh of energy has been collectively sapped from the inertia of the all spinning synchronous machines connected to the grid - mostly generators, but also motors - as a result of which they are spinning slower than they should be. Slowing spinning synchronous generators means a lower grid frequency.

ju-st 9y ago
Thanks, so its basically stolen at the generation level and thus you can't bill them 100GWh because that energy has never even appeared on the grid and technically nobody has consumed it.
- caf 9y ago
  No, it has definitely been consumed. The only impediment to billing them is political.