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> Releasing it is purely positive. If you are releasing a free Python class under the Google brand, but the content is almost a decade old[1] and a lot of it w

by devy 9y ago

> Releasing it is purely positive. If you are releasing a free Python class under the Google brand, but the content is almost a decade old[1] and a lot of it will be phased out shortly or unsupported in 2 short years, you are doing the community a dis-service. Stop assuming freebie is always good stuff or Google always release high quality content. Disclaimer: I am a long time python developer and I love Google's service in general. [1] https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/

mieseratte 9y ago
> If you are releasing a free Python class under the Google brand, but the content is almost a decade old[1] and a lot of it will be phased out shortly or unsupported in 2 short years, you are doing the community a dis-service. Companies use things that are "out of date" due to various factors. You could shit on a "IBM's COBOL Class" because COBOL is old as shit, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of COBOL out in the world, and a need for folks to learn it so that they may maintain or migrate it. Just because Python 3 is the shiny new version and the future of the language doesn't change that there is going to be a lot of Python 2 out there and folks will need to learn and understand it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Cyph0n 9y ago
  A better analogy would be IBM releasing a tutorial for an unsupported version of COBOL and calling it a tutorial for "modern" COBOL. In a nutshell, it's not about Python 2 being old, it's about calling Python 2 "Python" when that hasn't been the case for a few years now at the least.
  - mieseratte 9y ago
    > A better analogy would be IBM releasing a tutorial for an unsupported version of COBOL and calling it a tutorial for "modern" COBOL. Well, no, they've made no comparable claim. From skimming the material, not only does Google not refer to Python as "modern" but provide the caveat > For Google's Python Class, it's best to use Python 2.7. Although Python 3.x is becoming more popular, this course is designed for Python 2.6 or later. I suppose to some folks they should provide a disclaimer with road flares warning of Danger Ahead, but it's not as if they're intentionally misleading.
    - Cyph0n 9y ago
      That doesn't sound like a caveat at all. "Becoming more popular" should instead be "will be the only supported version of Python from 2020 onwards". Unless the reader is aware of the state of Python 2 vs. 3, he/she wouldn't even bat an eye.
      - mieseratte 9y ago
        > Unless the reader is aware of the state of Python 2 vs. 3, he/she wouldn't even bat an eye. If I were looking at learning Python and read that line I'd stop and dig a little deeper. I hate on Google as much as the next neo-Luddite, but they're putting out quality material on a topic that some folks will need. Y'all are pretty damn hateful.
- devy 9y ago
  Python is the #1 fastest growing programming language on Stackoverflow.[1] and #4 on TIOBE index[2]. There is a huge need for good and current python tutorials and/or online classes for the growing community. I applaud the intent for Google to contribute. BUT if your content is not current or not up to the bar, perhaps you shouldn't even consider releasing it? Google internally has a lot of Python 2 code no doubt, but for the beginners that want to learn python, Google's python class is not even on par with the expectation out there. COBOL doesn't even make it to the top 25 on TIOBE index, so your comparison doesn't matter. Who wants to learn COBOL these days if they weren't mandated by the job or for teaching? [1]: https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-python/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-pyth... [2]: https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
- serf 9y ago
  >Just because Python 3 is the shiny new version and the future of the language doesn't change that there is going to be a lot of Python 2 out there and folks will need to learn and understand it. 1) Teaching beginners' Python 2 , the motives are suspicious -- especially considering Googles' use of Python 2 internally. It's not entirely noble to train beginners' to familiarize themselves on languages that are on their way out just so that they can maintain your legacy code once they get some experience. It's profit maximizing, speaks to their thought-process behind the employees' career, and points towards a culture that's uninterested in internal improvement when things work to turn a profit. 2) Python 2 is not Python, it's Python 2. Programming tutorials for "Python" muddy the search-query waters and make it difficult for beginners to find specific information. This happened to the Lisps, and it's a big barrier to entry for beginners to the language(s). 3) Python 2 can be easily understood by Python 3 users. In fact, it's often more verbose and easier to wrap your head around than Python 3, and the syntactic differences are minor unless you're using advanced features. I'm sure Google is just releasing internal stuff that's been around for years -- I just think its' disingenuous to refer to what they teach as 'Python'. Yeah; it's Python if you're a googler; it's python 2 to the rest of the world -- and it's on the way out. P.S. if my company sent me to a seminar on COBOL, i'd be well aware of the position they expected of me -- and i'd have one foot out the door.
  - mieseratte 9y ago
    > I just think its' disingenuous to refer to what they teach as 'Python'. Well what do you propose we call it? Cobra? It's still Python, just not the latest version. > P.S. if my company sent me to a seminar on COBOL, i'd be well aware of the position they expected of me -- and i'd have one foot out the door. To be frank, you sound like a prima donna. Part of software engineering is maintenance and migration. If my company sent me out to learn COBOL I'd be happy for an interesting challenge that I'd not normally be exposed to.
  - saurabh_hooda 9y ago
    > Programming tutorials for "Python" muddy the search-query waters and make it difficult for beginners to find specific information. Yeah, very true. Finding latest programming courses and tutorials is a pain on Google Search. We are making Hackr.io as a better alternative for online programming tutorial search. For Python: https://hackr.io/tutorials/learn-python https://hackr.io/tutorials/learn-python

by devy 9y ago

mieseratte 9y ago

> If you are releasing a free Python class under the Google brand, but the content is almost a decade old[1] and a lot of it will be phased out shortly or unsupported in 2 short years, you are doing the community a dis-service. Companies use things that are "out of date" due to various factors. You could shit on a "IBM's COBOL Class" because COBOL is old as shit, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of COBOL out in the world, and a need for folks to learn it so that they may maintain or migrate it. Just because Python 3 is the shiny new version and the future of the language doesn't change that there is going to be a lot of Python 2 out there and folks will need to learn and understand it.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Cyph0n 9y ago
A better analogy would be IBM releasing a tutorial for an unsupported version of COBOL and calling it a tutorial for "modern" COBOL. In a nutshell, it's not about Python 2 being old, it's about calling Python 2 "Python" when that hasn't been the case for a few years now at the least.
- mieseratte 9y ago
  > A better analogy would be IBM releasing a tutorial for an unsupported version of COBOL and calling it a tutorial for "modern" COBOL. Well, no, they've made no comparable claim. From skimming the material, not only does Google not refer to Python as "modern" but provide the caveat > For Google's Python Class, it's best to use Python 2.7. Although Python 3.x is becoming more popular, this course is designed for Python 2.6 or later. I suppose to some folks they should provide a disclaimer with road flares warning of Danger Ahead, but it's not as if they're intentionally misleading.
  - Cyph0n 9y ago
    That doesn't sound like a caveat at all. "Becoming more popular" should instead be "will be the only supported version of Python from 2020 onwards". Unless the reader is aware of the state of Python 2 vs. 3, he/she wouldn't even bat an eye.
    - mieseratte 9y ago
      > Unless the reader is aware of the state of Python 2 vs. 3, he/she wouldn't even bat an eye. If I were looking at learning Python and read that line I'd stop and dig a little deeper. I hate on Google as much as the next neo-Luddite, but they're putting out quality material on a topic that some folks will need. Y'all are pretty damn hateful.
devy 9y ago
Python is the #1 fastest growing programming language on Stackoverflow.[1] and #4 on TIOBE index[2]. There is a huge need for good and current python tutorials and/or online classes for the growing community. I applaud the intent for Google to contribute. BUT if your content is not current or not up to the bar, perhaps you shouldn't even consider releasing it? Google internally has a lot of Python 2 code no doubt, but for the beginners that want to learn python, Google's python class is not even on par with the expectation out there. COBOL doesn't even make it to the top 25 on TIOBE index, so your comparison doesn't matter. Who wants to learn COBOL these days if they weren't mandated by the job or for teaching? [1]: https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-python/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/06/incredible-growth-pyth... [2]: https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
serf 9y ago
>Just because Python 3 is the shiny new version and the future of the language doesn't change that there is going to be a lot of Python 2 out there and folks will need to learn and understand it. 1) Teaching beginners' Python 2 , the motives are suspicious -- especially considering Googles' use of Python 2 internally. It's not entirely noble to train beginners' to familiarize themselves on languages that are on their way out just so that they can maintain your legacy code once they get some experience. It's profit maximizing, speaks to their thought-process behind the employees' career, and points towards a culture that's uninterested in internal improvement when things work to turn a profit. 2) Python 2 is not Python, it's Python 2. Programming tutorials for "Python" muddy the search-query waters and make it difficult for beginners to find specific information. This happened to the Lisps, and it's a big barrier to entry for beginners to the language(s). 3) Python 2 can be easily understood by Python 3 users. In fact, it's often more verbose and easier to wrap your head around than Python 3, and the syntactic differences are minor unless you're using advanced features. I'm sure Google is just releasing internal stuff that's been around for years -- I just think its' disingenuous to refer to what they teach as 'Python'. Yeah; it's Python if you're a googler; it's python 2 to the rest of the world -- and it's on the way out. P.S. if my company sent me to a seminar on COBOL, i'd be well aware of the position they expected of me -- and i'd have one foot out the door.
- mieseratte 9y ago
  > I just think its' disingenuous to refer to what they teach as 'Python'. Well what do you propose we call it? Cobra? It's still Python, just not the latest version. > P.S. if my company sent me to a seminar on COBOL, i'd be well aware of the position they expected of me -- and i'd have one foot out the door. To be frank, you sound like a prima donna. Part of software engineering is maintenance and migration. If my company sent me out to learn COBOL I'd be happy for an interesting challenge that I'd not normally be exposed to.
- saurabh_hooda 9y ago
  > Programming tutorials for "Python" muddy the search-query waters and make it difficult for beginners to find specific information. Yeah, very true. Finding latest programming courses and tutorials is a pain on Google Search. We are making Hackr.io as a better alternative for online programming tutorial search. For Python: https://hackr.io/tutorials/learn-python https://hackr.io/tutorials/learn-python