4 ms·

I am really amazed that a ships log from 132 years ago was retained and is still available. Is this a common thing?

by sooper 9y ago

russdill 9y ago
It's one of the primary methods to study historical weather patterns.
dalbasal 9y ago
I guess that once it's archived, it tends to stay that way.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  Unless it doesn't. "Over time, all data approaches deleted, or public." -- Quinn Norton. Libraries have various traditions of burning. Alexandria (probably several times). The U.S. Library of Congress, in 1814, 1851, and 1825. http://www.accessible-archives.com/2013/01/the-other-fire-at-the-library-of-congress-1851/ http://www.accessible-archives.com/2013/01/the-other-fire-at... https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/22/this-day-in-politics-dec-22-1825-301606 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/22/this-day-in-politi...
jeffcore 9y ago
I know the U.S. Navy permanently retains the deck logs of its commissioned ships. The ONRL has some logs dating back to 1776.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  A permanent retention policy wasn't, apparently, the reason ONRL has those logs, as those records are identified as “records acquired from private citizens”. [0] [0] https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/045.html#45.8.4 https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/0...
  - jeffcore 9y ago
    Yes, the permanent retention policy came well after the days of the Continental Navy. Those requirements are currently set out in SECNAV M-5210.1. Nowadays, they're maintained by NAVHISTHERITAGECOM and then transferred to the National Archives after 30-years.
digi_owl 9y ago
Archives of the Royal Navy officers logs seems to date back the 1660s. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-navy-ships-voyages-log-books/ http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/r...
- theoh 9y ago
  This is interesting too. A less detailed class of records, but older. http://www.medievalandtudorships.org/database/ http://www.medievalandtudorships.org/database/
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  The archives of the Spanish Archive of the Indies are a century older than that, and if the Portuguese Casa da Índia hadn't been destroyed in the great 1755 earthquake we'd have sailing records from the dawn of the Age of Discoveries. The records and maps were national secrets, and for good reason. You do wonder if the NSA will declassify its records 100 years from now.
  - mbroncano 9y ago
    They have even older documents in Simancas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo_General_de_Simancas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo_General_de_Simancas
MichaelMoser123 9y ago
Interesting if digital records will be quite as permanent as paper record; Will the problem of data loss be solved some day? Hard to know.
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  Depends on whether they're just being used for day-to-day work or, like a ship's log, they're actively getting archived. I think atm, printing and storing is still the way to go with that.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
There are a lot of historical records that you'd never expect to have survived for so long in various archives. There are massive archives of historical brewing data from various breweries in the UK dating back to the 1800s, this guy has a blog all about old British beer: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com There are also parish records for births, deaths, and marriages going back centuries in the UK as well as taxation records for centuries. People love keeping records of things. If you want to have a look at what weird things we still have records of, have a look at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/, it's a treasure trove of old data.
- ma2rten 9y ago
  I wonder if in 200 years, they going to have people's browsing and location data from now. If yes that would be an unprecedented amount of records for historians.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Given the way digital storage works, I guess it will be more like us looking at old Egiptian, Mayan, Romman, Greek artifacts while wondering what their purpose was.
  - Cthulhu_ 9y ago
    I don't think so myself tbf, it's not very informative information - unless maybe it's about someone important or influential. I'm sure most of my internet comments I've left behind over the past decade - tens of thousands of them on numerous websites - will hover around for years to come, but I doubt they'd have historical significance unless I become famous somehow. The writings of Aaron Schwarz became eternalised in a way since his death, they're frequently getting "resurrected" on HN for example.

I am really amazed that a ships log from 132 years ago was retained and is still available. Is this a common thing?

by sooper 9y ago

I am really amazed that a ships log from 132 years ago was retained and is still available. Is this a common thing?

russdill 9y ago

It's one of the primary methods to study historical weather patterns.

dalbasal 9y ago

I guess that once it's archived, it tends to stay that way.

dredmorbius 9y ago
Unless it doesn't. "Over time, all data approaches deleted, or public." -- Quinn Norton. Libraries have various traditions of burning. Alexandria (probably several times). The U.S. Library of Congress, in 1814, 1851, and 1825. http://www.accessible-archives.com/2013/01/the-other-fire-at-the-library-of-congress-1851/ http://www.accessible-archives.com/2013/01/the-other-fire-at... https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/22/this-day-in-politics-dec-22-1825-301606 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/22/this-day-in-politi...

jeffcore 9y ago

I know the U.S. Navy permanently retains the deck logs of its commissioned ships. The ONRL has some logs dating back to 1776.

dragonwriter 9y ago
A permanent retention policy wasn't, apparently, the reason ONRL has those logs, as those records are identified as “records acquired from private citizens”. [0] [0] https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/045.html#45.8.4 https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/0...
- jeffcore 9y ago
  Yes, the permanent retention policy came well after the days of the Continental Navy. Those requirements are currently set out in SECNAV M-5210.1. Nowadays, they're maintained by NAVHISTHERITAGECOM and then transferred to the National Archives after 30-years.

digi_owl 9y ago

Archives of the Royal Navy officers logs seems to date back the 1660s. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-navy-ships-voyages-log-books/ http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/r...

theoh 9y ago
This is interesting too. A less detailed class of records, but older. http://www.medievalandtudorships.org/database/ http://www.medievalandtudorships.org/database/
HarryHirsch 9y ago
The archives of the Spanish Archive of the Indies are a century older than that, and if the Portuguese Casa da Índia hadn't been destroyed in the great 1755 earthquake we'd have sailing records from the dawn of the Age of Discoveries. The records and maps were national secrets, and for good reason. You do wonder if the NSA will declassify its records 100 years from now.
- mbroncano 9y ago
  They have even older documents in Simancas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo_General_de_Simancas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo_General_de_Simancas

MichaelMoser123 9y ago

Interesting if digital records will be quite as permanent as paper record; Will the problem of data loss be solved some day? Hard to know.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Depends on whether they're just being used for day-to-day work or, like a ship's log, they're actively getting archived. I think atm, printing and storing is still the way to go with that.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

There are a lot of historical records that you'd never expect to have survived for so long in various archives. There are massive archives of historical brewing data from various breweries in the UK dating back to the 1800s, this guy has a blog all about old British beer: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com There are also parish records for births, deaths, and marriages going back centuries in the UK as well as taxation records for centuries. People love keeping records of things. If you want to have a look at what weird things we still have records of, have a look at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/, it's a treasure trove of old data.

ma2rten 9y ago
I wonder if in 200 years, they going to have people's browsing and location data from now. If yes that would be an unprecedented amount of records for historians.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Given the way digital storage works, I guess it will be more like us looking at old Egiptian, Mayan, Romman, Greek artifacts while wondering what their purpose was.
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  I don't think so myself tbf, it's not very informative information - unless maybe it's about someone important or influential. I'm sure most of my internet comments I've left behind over the past decade - tens of thousands of them on numerous websites - will hover around for years to come, but I doubt they'd have historical significance unless I become famous somehow. The writings of Aaron Schwarz became eternalised in a way since his death, they're frequently getting "resurrected" on HN for example.