4 ms·

Python 2 is still the only Python installed by default on many systems, Mac in particular.

andrewstuart 9y ago
If you're learning a programming language, your decision about which language to learn should not be driven by whether or not the language is preinstalled and you need to go to the trouble of installing one piece of software. "I decided to become a Prolog programmer because it was the only thing installed on my machine."
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  Sure it should! A lot of us got started when we only had a choice between BASIC or assembler and we turned out mostly just fine.
  - fermienrico 9y ago
    I disagree. 5 mins of work to install a new programming language impacts so much of what you do with that language and how you would deploy it in production environment. As the GP says - Python 3 is the future. By this logic, we should be using IE on Windows.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > By this logic, we should be using IE on Windows But, if you know nothing about the web and are just learning, and you've got a Windows machine, sure, use IE (or Edge, if it's Windows 10.) Just like if you are starting from zero programming, and self-teaching, sure, use whatever is available in the base install of your OS.
    - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
      5 minutes for you is not 5 minutes for someone new.
      - fermienrico 9y ago
        Could you please explain why? I am curious what are some of the roadblocks in installing Python 3 for a newbie?
        CJefferson 9y ago
        Last time I tried to install python3 and pip on a Mac without root, I tried following 2 guides from the internet, both gave weird errors, and I gave up. My "give up" was just install as root, system wide, but that's only because I have root access to my machine.
    - cryptoz 9y ago
      > and how you would deploy it in production environment We're talking about learning a new language, not deploying to production. > By this logic, we should be using IE on Windows. No, that's not what anybody said. This is about learning languages, not even using them. Using a language is different from learning a language in so many ways they aren't even comparable. Millions of people could be learning a language for millions of reasons. Simple portability is useful - knowing a language that is preinstalled on a huge portion of computers worldwide has massive advantages for a huge number of people who are learning new languages today. Dismissing the values that others might place in how they learn a language is being close-minded. There are lots of reasons to learn to program, and learning based on the language available to you first and most readily is certainly a reasonable approach.
  - ChristianGeek 9y ago
    Mostly.
- newen 9y ago
  I don't see anything wrong with that logic. It's not like I'm going to be using code that I wrote while learning in the future. And it's not like learning Prolog (or Python 2) will make me unable to learn other languages in the future.
- cryptoz 9y ago
  Of course it should! That's how I got started programming 17 years ago. I never would have started programming if the first thing was to find a language and pick it. I absolutely started programming because there was a language there. (In this case, it's both javascript and c, on linux, and VBA on Windows. I use none of those today but that doesn't matter!)
- agumonkey 9y ago
  > "I decided to become a Prolog programmer because it was the only thing installed on my machine." if only..
- GCU-Empiricist 9y ago
  I've been stuck in a C# shop for a while but last I knew python 3 was/is dead and most developing opensource packages were not being converted. Is there something useful that's only in Python 3?
  - mastazi 9y ago
    Python 3 has has become prevalent in usage around 2013-2014. I don't know anyone who is starting a Python 2 project as of now. In terms of library support, as of 2018 you get more library support on Python 3 [1]. Some new libraries coming out may still support Python 2, but many are Python 3 only. For example the latest Tensorflow is Python 3 only if you want to install it on Windows[2] and Django back in 2017 has completely removed Python 2 support [3] [1] https://python3wos.appspot.com/ https://python3wos.appspot.com/ [2] https://www.tensorflow.org/install/install_windows https://www.tensorflow.org/install/install_windows [3] https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.0/releases/2.0/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.0/releases/2.0/
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >Python 3 has has become prevalent in usage around 2013-2014. Citation needed. Back then it was at best at 20%, and even today it's not much more (source: PYPY download statistics breakdown). >I don't know anyone who is starting a Python 2 project as of now. I know several. Any company with lots of Python 2 projects that are not going anywhere soon (Google is one of them), is probably also starting new Python 2 projects alongside them, they won't add 2 different versions to cater to.
      - mastazi 9y ago
        > Any company with lots of Python 2 projects that are not going anywhere soon (Google is one of them), is probably also starting new Python 2 projects alongside them, they won't add 2 different versions to cater to. Citation needed. Edit: Oh and Tensorflow for Windows is made by Google and it's Python 3.5 or higher.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
- CJefferson 9y ago
  However, if you want to distribute software, it's reasonable to pick a language which will make your programs easy for others to install and use.

If you're learning a programming language, your decision about which language to learn should not be driven by whether or not the language is preinstalled and you need to go to the trouble of installing one piece of software. "I decided to become a Prolog programmer because it was the only thing installed on my machine."

JustSomeNobody 9y ago
Sure it should! A lot of us got started when we only had a choice between BASIC or assembler and we turned out mostly just fine.
- fermienrico 9y ago
  I disagree. 5 mins of work to install a new programming language impacts so much of what you do with that language and how you would deploy it in production environment. As the GP says - Python 3 is the future. By this logic, we should be using IE on Windows.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > By this logic, we should be using IE on Windows But, if you know nothing about the web and are just learning, and you've got a Windows machine, sure, use IE (or Edge, if it's Windows 10.) Just like if you are starting from zero programming, and self-teaching, sure, use whatever is available in the base install of your OS.
  - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
    5 minutes for you is not 5 minutes for someone new.
    - fermienrico 9y ago
      Could you please explain why? I am curious what are some of the roadblocks in installing Python 3 for a newbie?
      - CJefferson 9y ago
        Last time I tried to install python3 and pip on a Mac without root, I tried following 2 guides from the internet, both gave weird errors, and I gave up. My "give up" was just install as root, system wide, but that's only because I have root access to my machine.
  - cryptoz 9y ago
    > and how you would deploy it in production environment We're talking about learning a new language, not deploying to production. > By this logic, we should be using IE on Windows. No, that's not what anybody said. This is about learning languages, not even using them. Using a language is different from learning a language in so many ways they aren't even comparable. Millions of people could be learning a language for millions of reasons. Simple portability is useful - knowing a language that is preinstalled on a huge portion of computers worldwide has massive advantages for a huge number of people who are learning new languages today. Dismissing the values that others might place in how they learn a language is being close-minded. There are lots of reasons to learn to program, and learning based on the language available to you first and most readily is certainly a reasonable approach.
- ChristianGeek 9y ago
  Mostly.
newen 9y ago
I don't see anything wrong with that logic. It's not like I'm going to be using code that I wrote while learning in the future. And it's not like learning Prolog (or Python 2) will make me unable to learn other languages in the future.
cryptoz 9y ago
Of course it should! That's how I got started programming 17 years ago. I never would have started programming if the first thing was to find a language and pick it. I absolutely started programming because there was a language there. (In this case, it's both javascript and c, on linux, and VBA on Windows. I use none of those today but that doesn't matter!)
agumonkey 9y ago
> "I decided to become a Prolog programmer because it was the only thing installed on my machine." if only..
GCU-Empiricist 9y ago
I've been stuck in a C# shop for a while but last I knew python 3 was/is dead and most developing opensource packages were not being converted. Is there something useful that's only in Python 3?
- mastazi 9y ago
  Python 3 has has become prevalent in usage around 2013-2014. I don't know anyone who is starting a Python 2 project as of now. In terms of library support, as of 2018 you get more library support on Python 3 [1]. Some new libraries coming out may still support Python 2, but many are Python 3 only. For example the latest Tensorflow is Python 3 only if you want to install it on Windows[2] and Django back in 2017 has completely removed Python 2 support [3] [1] https://python3wos.appspot.com/ https://python3wos.appspot.com/ [2] https://www.tensorflow.org/install/install_windows https://www.tensorflow.org/install/install_windows [3] https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.0/releases/2.0/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.0/releases/2.0/
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >Python 3 has has become prevalent in usage around 2013-2014. Citation needed. Back then it was at best at 20%, and even today it's not much more (source: PYPY download statistics breakdown). >I don't know anyone who is starting a Python 2 project as of now. I know several. Any company with lots of Python 2 projects that are not going anywhere soon (Google is one of them), is probably also starting new Python 2 projects alongside them, they won't add 2 different versions to cater to.
    - mastazi 9y ago
      > Any company with lots of Python 2 projects that are not going anywhere soon (Google is one of them), is probably also starting new Python 2 projects alongside them, they won't add 2 different versions to cater to. Citation needed. Edit: Oh and Tensorflow for Windows is made by Google and it's Python 3.5 or higher.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
CJefferson 9y ago
However, if you want to distribute software, it's reasonable to pick a language which will make your programs easy for others to install and use.