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On the other hand, tens of millions of Americans also take the polar opposite stance: Nobody is responsible for anything. If anyone is in a bad circumstance (h

by ythn 9y ago

On the other hand, tens of millions of Americans also take the polar opposite stance: Nobody is responsible for anything. If anyone is in a bad circumstance (health, money, job, housing, debt, drugs, addiction, abortion, sex, crime) it was not their fault; it can't be. It was therefore a failure of the system, and therefore the system needs to fix it. Either they didn't get the proper mental health care they needed, physical health care, or education, or <insert system failure>.

lucideer 9y ago
I have never encountered an American who thinks this, in person, or online. I'm sure plenty of Americans that I have not encountered do think this, but they are in a negligible, near-non-existent minority.
- ythn 9y ago
  Well, look around more, it's everywhere. Just this week: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/my-brain-made-me-do-it-is-becoming-a-more-common-criminal-defense/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/my-brain-made-me-... The liberal philosophy in general is that people don't need to be responsible for anything, ever: - Irresponsible sex? Fix it with a free abortion - Irresponsible diet? Fix it with free healthcare - Irresponsible drug use? Fix it with free rehab - Committed a crime? Must be a mental issue, fix it with free mental healthcare. The liberal mindset is to fix every societal issue with free services, free money, free _____, personal responsibility be darned. Cut off your own arm because you have body integrity identity disorder? The gov't should pay for a prosthetic and therapy!
  - lucideer 9y ago
    I don't see anyone in that article who holds the views you describe. There aren't even any opinions mentioned in the article, liberal or otherwise. Did you share the wrong link? It's an article about criminals trying to game the system in court: the disingenuous insanity plea has been a feature of Hollywood court dramas and other movies forever. There's nothing new here. Here is a nice quote from the article though: > “This is such a fraught area, and it’s prone to hype and overstatement,”
    - ythn 9y ago
      Here's a series of questions for any liberal: 1. Should abortion be free and accessible to all women (personal responsibility be darned)? 2. Should rehab be free and accessible to everyone (personal responsibility be darned)? 3. Should healthcare be free and accessible to everyone (personal responsibility be darned)? 4. Should financial assistance be free and accessible to the poor (personal responsibility be darned)? The part in parenthesis is implied, but every liberal I've spoken with answers yes to all 4. Doesn't matter if you are a smoking, obese, promiscuous gambler by choice, by golly you should be entitled to free healthcare, rehab, abortion services and welfare.
      - lucideer 9y ago
        > The part in parenthesis is implied This assertion nullifies your point. The part in parenthesis is obviously in no way implied, and is just hyperbolic rhetoric in an attempt to create a strawman. If you're interested in reasonable debate, I would suggest refraining from such tactics.
        ythn 9y ago
        Words like "unconditional", "universal", "everyone", "all", etc. absolutely imply that personal responsibility is not a factor. Give me an example of a liberal stance of one of the above issues that factors in personal responsibility. Hint: none of them do because universal healthcare* (*except for obese people and drug abusers and other people that didn't take care of their bodies) would be very unpopular. Ditto for all other services/stances.
        lucideer 9y ago
        > Words like "unconditional", "universal", "everyone", "all", etc. absolutely imply that personal responsibility is not a factor. If you think so, I think you're somewhat missing the point. Or arguing against one that isn't there. To take your assertion to its logical end: - system provides "universal" healthcare - the above system therefore excuses personal responsibility for... healthcare access existing? I'm not really sure where this leads? What you seem to be assuming is that an "irresponsible" actor impinges on service provision by virtue of their irresponsibility. Believe it or not, this is not an assumption rooted in reality. If it were, the US per capita healthcare budget would be much lower than that of France.

by ythn 9y ago

lucideer 9y ago

I have never encountered an American who thinks this, in person, or online. I'm sure plenty of Americans that I have not encountered do think this, but they are in a negligible, near-non-existent minority.

ythn 9y ago
Well, look around more, it's everywhere. Just this week: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/my-brain-made-me-do-it-is-becoming-a-more-common-criminal-defense/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/my-brain-made-me-... The liberal philosophy in general is that people don't need to be responsible for anything, ever: - Irresponsible sex? Fix it with a free abortion - Irresponsible diet? Fix it with free healthcare - Irresponsible drug use? Fix it with free rehab - Committed a crime? Must be a mental issue, fix it with free mental healthcare. The liberal mindset is to fix every societal issue with free services, free money, free _____, personal responsibility be darned. Cut off your own arm because you have body integrity identity disorder? The gov't should pay for a prosthetic and therapy!
- lucideer 9y ago
  I don't see anyone in that article who holds the views you describe. There aren't even any opinions mentioned in the article, liberal or otherwise. Did you share the wrong link? It's an article about criminals trying to game the system in court: the disingenuous insanity plea has been a feature of Hollywood court dramas and other movies forever. There's nothing new here. Here is a nice quote from the article though: > “This is such a fraught area, and it’s prone to hype and overstatement,”
  - ythn 9y ago
    Here's a series of questions for any liberal: 1. Should abortion be free and accessible to all women (personal responsibility be darned)? 2. Should rehab be free and accessible to everyone (personal responsibility be darned)? 3. Should healthcare be free and accessible to everyone (personal responsibility be darned)? 4. Should financial assistance be free and accessible to the poor (personal responsibility be darned)? The part in parenthesis is implied, but every liberal I've spoken with answers yes to all 4. Doesn't matter if you are a smoking, obese, promiscuous gambler by choice, by golly you should be entitled to free healthcare, rehab, abortion services and welfare.
    - lucideer 9y ago
      > The part in parenthesis is implied This assertion nullifies your point. The part in parenthesis is obviously in no way implied, and is just hyperbolic rhetoric in an attempt to create a strawman. If you're interested in reasonable debate, I would suggest refraining from such tactics.
      - ythn 9y ago
        Words like "unconditional", "universal", "everyone", "all", etc. absolutely imply that personal responsibility is not a factor. Give me an example of a liberal stance of one of the above issues that factors in personal responsibility. Hint: none of them do because universal healthcare* (*except for obese people and drug abusers and other people that didn't take care of their bodies) would be very unpopular. Ditto for all other services/stances.
        lucideer 9y ago
        > Words like "unconditional", "universal", "everyone", "all", etc. absolutely imply that personal responsibility is not a factor. If you think so, I think you're somewhat missing the point. Or arguing against one that isn't there. To take your assertion to its logical end: - system provides "universal" healthcare - the above system therefore excuses personal responsibility for... healthcare access existing? I'm not really sure where this leads? What you seem to be assuming is that an "irresponsible" actor impinges on service provision by virtue of their irresponsibility. Believe it or not, this is not an assumption rooted in reality. If it were, the US per capita healthcare budget would be much lower than that of France.