12 ms·

All this does is scare me. I honestly hope I die before I have to retire, because there's no way I'm going to have saved enough money to live off of, even modes

by mcovey 9y ago

All this does is scare me. I honestly hope I die before I have to retire, because there's no way I'm going to have saved enough money to live off of, even modestly, and no way I'm going to remain sharp enough to continue earning through and beyond my 60s.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Pay off a modest $100k house in a low cost of living area and you should be able to survive on Social Security alone. Save more if you can though.
- metalliqaz 9y ago
  Social Security, in my retirement? That's a laugh.
  - snowwrestler 9y ago
    While it is fashionable to doubt that Social Security will be around for the Gen X or Millenial retirements, the reality is that it's simply a matter of political will. If people like Social Security (and they generally do), then all they have to do is vote for politicians who will protect it, and harass politicians when it looks like they won't. Of course it's fine to plan for a retirement without Social Security... having too much money in retirement is not generally considered a problem. But if you're feeling despair over Social Security, know that there is something you can do about it: political organizing.
    - allsunny 9y ago
      I agree. I think Social Security, like Medicare, is a "third rail" sort of thing. I expect politicians will have to cut back military spending before they can go after Social Security
      - metalliqaz 9y ago
        You haven't heard of Paul Ryan?
    - metalliqaz 9y ago
      Politicians don't listen to you or me. They listen to Moneybags McGee and his PAC. The vision of democracy that you described in that comment doesn't exist in the United States.
      - function_seven 9y ago
        The fact that Social Security has survived for several decades is evidence otherwise. Even Moneybags McGee knows better than to poke at AARP and the most reliable voting demographic in the world.
    - dbajakkchs 9y ago
      IMO, publicly despairing that social security won’t exist in the future only serves to shift the Overton window, making it more likely that social security won’t exist.
      - __blockcipher__ 9y ago
        Of course it won’t exist. It’s an asinine, regressive policy that uses trick after evil trick to convince voters that it’s not an unholy abomination. I know my rhetoric sounds like a joke, but I’m 100% serious. You have the fake notion that “employers pay half” (no, the worker pays 100% of it truly), you have its regressive nature (poor people start working earlier and also die earlier, so it’s a redistribution towards the wealthy), you have the fact that it’s sold as a sort of insurance/retirement account when in actuality it’s neither. Honesty, you’d be hardpressed to find a more awful government “safety net” program. I miss the days when I supported myself only on illegal income and got to avoid the whole issue. Alas, those days are gone.
        BeetleB 9y ago
        >You have the fake notion that “employers pay half” (no, the worker pays 100% of it truly) You have the fake notion that if we didn't have SS, employers would pay you more. >you have the fact that it’s sold as a sort of insurance/retirement account when in actuality it’s neither. It is in actuality neither. However, because of it, seniors were the age group who were least likely to be in poverty during the recent recession. During those years, it really acted well as a safety net.
  - poster123 9y ago
    Social Security will exist in some form because Americans won't let the elderly starve en masse, but there will likely be partial means testing (people with higher incomes or possibly assets get lower benefits), higher eligibility ages, and lower basic benefits.
  - gowld 9y ago
    Even the conservative assumptions of the SSA show that SS will have some funding for your retirement, just not 100% of what is current promised. (Something like 75% 30 years from now)
  - dbajakkchs 9y ago
    Even on the current path, if no changes are made to improve solvency, social security will pay out at about 75%.
- 5555624 9y ago
  Do this when you are young, too. Doing this when you're older, say 50+, can still work, it's just harder. Unless I pay my mortgage off early, before I qualify for Social Security, I'll still be paying it. On the other hand, it's less than $800/month, so I am not too worried.
  - loeg 9y ago
    A mortgage is a sort of reverse bond. Ideally, you pay it off aggressively shortly before you plan to retire. This whole blog series is great, and I'd recommend it, but this particular post is the one responsive to the mortgage and retirement part: https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017/10/11/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-21-mortgage-in-retirement/ https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017/10/11/the-ultimate-guide...
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      I paid my mortgage off in my late 20s as a hedge against future unemployment.
- matte_black 9y ago
  Social security is a supplement, it’s not meant for you to live off, nor should you expect it to always be around.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - gowld 9y ago
    Social security is meant to be a foundation, not a supplement. It's supposed be enough to live on, but not enough to live luxuriously on.
- bduerst 9y ago
  Do retirees have to pay property taxes?
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Yes, but usually receive a discount for being seniors. That’s why I said low cost of living. Tennessee is nice.
    - sf_rob 9y ago
      And a lot of places freeze your property tax at 65, so you never have to pay more.
      - toephu2 9y ago
        A lot as in only 6 of the 50 states? *http://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-property-tax-freezes-and-assessment-freezes.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-property-ta...
        sf_rob 9y ago
        Most property tax is local not state. I don't have the percentage breakdown, but I have encountered this multiple times within my family (anecdotal I know). It's quite possible that this percent is not a majority. Plus, your link is more like ~14/50 states if you're only considering lower income folks.
Veelox 9y ago
> there's no way I'm going to have saved enough money to live off of It is possible. It will take work and change on your part. The first step is to track your spending. The easiest way to do this is get an account with mint, ynab (you need a budget), or personal capital. You can link all of your accounts with the site and app. You can then categorized your spending. After you do this you can start seeing where you can reduce your spending. The major areas you can save on are housing, transportation, food, and miscellaneous. The reverse order is probably the easiest to reduce costs. The Millionaire Next Door is a great book that talks about the difference in mindset between people who are able to build wealth well and those who are not able to. It is really eye opening if you are always broke.
- astura 9y ago
  The Millionaire Next Door is not a great book - it's just survivorship bias and assumes correlation is causation. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-death-of-the-millionaire-next-door-dream-20150310-column.html http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-death-o... Plus one of the authors died driving a Corvette, not a Corolla... Like all self help books, it's about selling hope. Furthermore, you were entirely unwarranted in making the assumption that the GP has a spending problem instead of an income problem.
- gowld 9y ago
  You have no idea what parent poster's income and skills are.
  - Veelox 9y ago
    You are right, I don't but since they are commenting on hacker news I give it a >90% that if they are willing to change their lifestyle than they can become less stressed about money.
- sokoloff 9y ago
  There is an interesting article on the relationship between savings rate and number of years required to save for retirement. Given a savings rate, the number of years required is income-invariant. (A given savings rate may not be invariant of course.) https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-si...

by mcovey 9y ago

toomuchtodo 9y ago

Pay off a modest $100k house in a low cost of living area and you should be able to survive on Social Security alone. Save more if you can though.

metalliqaz 9y ago
Social Security, in my retirement? That's a laugh.
- snowwrestler 9y ago
  While it is fashionable to doubt that Social Security will be around for the Gen X or Millenial retirements, the reality is that it's simply a matter of political will. If people like Social Security (and they generally do), then all they have to do is vote for politicians who will protect it, and harass politicians when it looks like they won't. Of course it's fine to plan for a retirement without Social Security... having too much money in retirement is not generally considered a problem. But if you're feeling despair over Social Security, know that there is something you can do about it: political organizing.
  - allsunny 9y ago
    I agree. I think Social Security, like Medicare, is a "third rail" sort of thing. I expect politicians will have to cut back military spending before they can go after Social Security
    - metalliqaz 9y ago
      You haven't heard of Paul Ryan?
  - metalliqaz 9y ago
    Politicians don't listen to you or me. They listen to Moneybags McGee and his PAC. The vision of democracy that you described in that comment doesn't exist in the United States.
    - function_seven 9y ago
      The fact that Social Security has survived for several decades is evidence otherwise. Even Moneybags McGee knows better than to poke at AARP and the most reliable voting demographic in the world.
  - dbajakkchs 9y ago
    IMO, publicly despairing that social security won’t exist in the future only serves to shift the Overton window, making it more likely that social security won’t exist.
    - __blockcipher__ 9y ago
      Of course it won’t exist. It’s an asinine, regressive policy that uses trick after evil trick to convince voters that it’s not an unholy abomination. I know my rhetoric sounds like a joke, but I’m 100% serious. You have the fake notion that “employers pay half” (no, the worker pays 100% of it truly), you have its regressive nature (poor people start working earlier and also die earlier, so it’s a redistribution towards the wealthy), you have the fact that it’s sold as a sort of insurance/retirement account when in actuality it’s neither. Honesty, you’d be hardpressed to find a more awful government “safety net” program. I miss the days when I supported myself only on illegal income and got to avoid the whole issue. Alas, those days are gone.
      - BeetleB 9y ago
        >You have the fake notion that “employers pay half” (no, the worker pays 100% of it truly) You have the fake notion that if we didn't have SS, employers would pay you more. >you have the fact that it’s sold as a sort of insurance/retirement account when in actuality it’s neither. It is in actuality neither. However, because of it, seniors were the age group who were least likely to be in poverty during the recent recession. During those years, it really acted well as a safety net.
- poster123 9y ago
  Social Security will exist in some form because Americans won't let the elderly starve en masse, but there will likely be partial means testing (people with higher incomes or possibly assets get lower benefits), higher eligibility ages, and lower basic benefits.
- gowld 9y ago
  Even the conservative assumptions of the SSA show that SS will have some funding for your retirement, just not 100% of what is current promised. (Something like 75% 30 years from now)
- dbajakkchs 9y ago
  Even on the current path, if no changes are made to improve solvency, social security will pay out at about 75%.
5555624 9y ago
Do this when you are young, too. Doing this when you're older, say 50+, can still work, it's just harder. Unless I pay my mortgage off early, before I qualify for Social Security, I'll still be paying it. On the other hand, it's less than $800/month, so I am not too worried.
- loeg 9y ago
  A mortgage is a sort of reverse bond. Ideally, you pay it off aggressively shortly before you plan to retire. This whole blog series is great, and I'd recommend it, but this particular post is the one responsive to the mortgage and retirement part: https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017/10/11/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-21-mortgage-in-retirement/ https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017/10/11/the-ultimate-guide...
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    I paid my mortgage off in my late 20s as a hedge against future unemployment.
matte_black 9y ago
Social security is a supplement, it’s not meant for you to live off, nor should you expect it to always be around.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- gowld 9y ago
  Social security is meant to be a foundation, not a supplement. It's supposed be enough to live on, but not enough to live luxuriously on.
bduerst 9y ago
Do retirees have to pay property taxes?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Yes, but usually receive a discount for being seniors. That’s why I said low cost of living. Tennessee is nice.
  - sf_rob 9y ago
    And a lot of places freeze your property tax at 65, so you never have to pay more.
    - toephu2 9y ago
      A lot as in only 6 of the 50 states? *http://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-property-tax-freezes-and-assessment-freezes.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/fiscal-policy/state-property-ta...
      - sf_rob 9y ago
        Most property tax is local not state. I don't have the percentage breakdown, but I have encountered this multiple times within my family (anecdotal I know). It's quite possible that this percent is not a majority. Plus, your link is more like ~14/50 states if you're only considering lower income folks.

Veelox 9y ago

> there's no way I'm going to have saved enough money to live off of It is possible. It will take work and change on your part. The first step is to track your spending. The easiest way to do this is get an account with mint, ynab (you need a budget), or personal capital. You can link all of your accounts with the site and app. You can then categorized your spending. After you do this you can start seeing where you can reduce your spending. The major areas you can save on are housing, transportation, food, and miscellaneous. The reverse order is probably the easiest to reduce costs. The Millionaire Next Door is a great book that talks about the difference in mindset between people who are able to build wealth well and those who are not able to. It is really eye opening if you are always broke.

astura 9y ago
The Millionaire Next Door is not a great book - it's just survivorship bias and assumes correlation is causation. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-death-of-the-millionaire-next-door-dream-20150310-column.html http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-death-o... Plus one of the authors died driving a Corvette, not a Corolla... Like all self help books, it's about selling hope. Furthermore, you were entirely unwarranted in making the assumption that the GP has a spending problem instead of an income problem.
gowld 9y ago
You have no idea what parent poster's income and skills are.
- Veelox 9y ago
  You are right, I don't but since they are commenting on hacker news I give it a >90% that if they are willing to change their lifestyle than they can become less stressed about money.
sokoloff 9y ago
There is an interesting article on the relationship between savings rate and number of years required to save for retirement. Given a savings rate, the number of years required is income-invariant. (A given savings rate may not be invariant of course.) https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-si...