4 ms·

> Somewhat unintuitively, American corporations today enjoy many of the same rights as American citizens. Both, for instance, are entitled to the freedom of spe

> Somewhat unintuitively, American corporations today enjoy many of the same rights as American citizens. Both, for instance, are entitled to the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion. I keep hearing that but what does it even mean? Corporations don't have religious beliefs, people do. Can the corporation be Muslim and have 100% Mormon employees? The only controversial bit I could locate in a different source was the corporate political spending: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood - but there is a bajillion plus loopholes to do that without the need to resort to legal fiction.

trisimix 9y ago
Yeah companies can internally praise certain religions over others. They can’t discriminate but they do anyways.
- vadimberman 9y ago
  It's not the companies, it's their owners. The simple test is, if the company management changes to someone of a different faith, will they praise the same religious belief? The answer is clearly no, as no one in their right mind puts religion in the articles of incorporation, probably not even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
- zentiggr 9y ago
  Heck, if the US Army can get away with it, who's to stop private OR public corporations?
rskar 9y ago
Examples of corporations expressing religious beliefs: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/03/24/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-hobby-lobby-case https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/03/24/he... Per above: "Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties' argument for not providing emergency contraception and IUD coverage to their employees can be boiled down to this: Because of the religious nature of our companies, we are entitled to religious freedom exemption from the Affordable Care Act's mandate because of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act — the same exemption that has been afforded to nonprofits with a religious nature." Granted, it's the people who run (and presumably own) these corporations that truly have religious beliefs. Even so, from a legal standpoint, it's the corporations that bring suit.
- vadimberman 9y ago
  This is a very interesting case, thanks. Not sure why a crafts store must provide contraception (I read a few times to make sure I got it right), and IMO they are just grasping at legal straws to fight off a ridiculous suit. But, like you say, it's the people who run these corporations. Were I the judge, I'd be looking into the articles of incorporation which, I'm sure, say nothing about religion.
Digory 9y ago
I think you're confusing Friedman-esque theory of large corporation ethics (in large firms, management should/must only maximize shareholder value) with the law of corporations. Your local mosque is likely a corporation; at least some aspects of Mormon churches are incorporated too. People in a group can share religious beliefs, and engage in religious conduct together, under the legal idea of a corporation -- the group activity is separate from their personal activity, for legal purposes. And, unless the state meets a very high bar, we don't let government dangle corporate status for giving up your other constitutional rights. That's been true for most of the past century, even for profit-motivated associations.

trisimix 9y ago

Yeah companies can internally praise certain religions over others. They can’t discriminate but they do anyways.

vadimberman 9y ago
It's not the companies, it's their owners. The simple test is, if the company management changes to someone of a different faith, will they praise the same religious belief? The answer is clearly no, as no one in their right mind puts religion in the articles of incorporation, probably not even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
zentiggr 9y ago
Heck, if the US Army can get away with it, who's to stop private OR public corporations?

rskar 9y ago

Examples of corporations expressing religious beliefs: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/03/24/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-hobby-lobby-case https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/03/24/he... Per above: "Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties' argument for not providing emergency contraception and IUD coverage to their employees can be boiled down to this: Because of the religious nature of our companies, we are entitled to religious freedom exemption from the Affordable Care Act's mandate because of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act — the same exemption that has been afforded to nonprofits with a religious nature." Granted, it's the people who run (and presumably own) these corporations that truly have religious beliefs. Even so, from a legal standpoint, it's the corporations that bring suit.

vadimberman 9y ago
This is a very interesting case, thanks. Not sure why a crafts store must provide contraception (I read a few times to make sure I got it right), and IMO they are just grasping at legal straws to fight off a ridiculous suit. But, like you say, it's the people who run these corporations. Were I the judge, I'd be looking into the articles of incorporation which, I'm sure, say nothing about religion.

Digory 9y ago

I think you're confusing Friedman-esque theory of large corporation ethics (in large firms, management should/must only maximize shareholder value) with the law of corporations. Your local mosque is likely a corporation; at least some aspects of Mormon churches are incorporated too. People in a group can share religious beliefs, and engage in religious conduct together, under the legal idea of a corporation -- the group activity is separate from their personal activity, for legal purposes. And, unless the state meets a very high bar, we don't let government dangle corporate status for giving up your other constitutional rights. That's been true for most of the past century, even for profit-motivated associations.