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> I have been reduced to a gibbering wreck trying to explain to otherwise intelligent people that science isn’t “just an opinion”, and that astrology and astron

> I have been reduced to a gibbering wreck trying to explain to otherwise intelligent people that science isn’t “just an opinion”, and that astrology and astronomy aren’t “just different, equally valid opinions”. A short sarcastic laughter would probably have worked better. If people sense their status is lowering because they believe in this "equally valid opinions" nonsense, they will have a strong incentive to update their belief. Of course, many will be offended, in which case I recommend turning the sarcastic laugh into a benevolent, condescending smile, with perhaps an appeal to their intelligence to soften the blow. Ideally though, you should spin it as if you were ridiculing a third party. This lets them avoid direct confrontation if they so chose, and you still get to make your point. In any case, they cannot be taught as long as they subscribe to epistemic relativism. They first have to get rid of it, somehow. Doesn't matter if it's for the wrong reasons. Only then can they be taught how to properly change their mind.

imron 9y ago
> offended, in which case I recommend turning the sarcastic laugh into a benevolent, condescending smile Acting condescendingly will only serve to make people think you are a condescending git.
- loup-vaillant 9y ago
  Not if you have higher status to begin with. Not if you are their friends to begin with. And if you merely have power over them, they will notice that their beliefs will attract the contempt of people who have power over them. Of course, this probably won't work on public web forums. Of course, this won't work on your boss. Of course, this will not work well on strangers. Then again, the best way to do it is to act as if you were ridiculing a third party. If they get offended, try not to notice, and direct your condescension at those other people you're pretending they're talking about. Give them a way to save face. Whatever the means, the idea is to stress that epistemic relativism is not socially acceptable. Make them feel that thinking such thoughts has consequences.
  - loup-vaillant 9y ago
    The downvote suggests I said something unacceptable. Maybe it was this: > Make them feel that thinking such thoughts has consequences. I do not condone actually carrying out dire consequences, we've had enough dictatorships to show us how this plays out. I'm talking about manipulating people. A little. Because nothing more innocuous that I know of will do.

imron 9y ago

> offended, in which case I recommend turning the sarcastic laugh into a benevolent, condescending smile Acting condescendingly will only serve to make people think you are a condescending git.

loup-vaillant 9y ago
Not if you have higher status to begin with. Not if you are their friends to begin with. And if you merely have power over them, they will notice that their beliefs will attract the contempt of people who have power over them. Of course, this probably won't work on public web forums. Of course, this won't work on your boss. Of course, this will not work well on strangers. Then again, the best way to do it is to act as if you were ridiculing a third party. If they get offended, try not to notice, and direct your condescension at those other people you're pretending they're talking about. Give them a way to save face. Whatever the means, the idea is to stress that epistemic relativism is not socially acceptable. Make them feel that thinking such thoughts has consequences.
- loup-vaillant 9y ago
  The downvote suggests I said something unacceptable. Maybe it was this: > Make them feel that thinking such thoughts has consequences. I do not condone actually carrying out dire consequences, we've had enough dictatorships to show us how this plays out. I'm talking about manipulating people. A little. Because nothing more innocuous that I know of will do.