6 ms·

My Last Day at Moz, My First Day at SparkToro

75 points by freddier 9y ago

andrea_sdl 9y ago
Rand has been an inspiration way before the topics of honesty and empathy were trendy. He was the spark that ignited my interest towards getting out of the usual "let's not discuss difficult topics", and as usual his post is a fantastic example of how to be honest without being a jerk. Aside from this, it's great to see him on a different journey, although I'm sure leaving Moz must've been hard.
dhruvkar 9y ago
Any links on how the company started? I had no inkling of its origins till reading this article.
- Roedou 9y ago
  The company has been around since 1981, but you wouldn't recognize it as the same company before ~2004. https://moz.com/blog/the-history-of-seomoz https://moz.com/blog/the-history-of-seomoz
elliotec 9y ago
I can't help but be curious of his leaving circumstances. >>> On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is “fired and escorted out of the building by security” and 10 is “left entirely of his own accord on wonderful terms,” my departure is around a 4.
- jorblumesea 9y ago
  He's been on his way out for quite awhile, having stepped back from day to day operations in July '17. He wasn't the most professional leader and was widely blamed for promoting and perpetuating a toxic culture within Moz. This included publicly attacking people in the industry, openly mocking and punishing customers for criticizing his product(s), and politicizing honest feedback. In addition, blew a ton of money on pie in the sky ideas that led nowhere while letting the core product stagnate, only having to lay off 30% of their workforce. Never worked there, take this with a grain of salt, just the word on the street in startup land :)
  - webwright 9y ago
    I've been in the Seattle startup scene for ~12 years and haven't ever heard him blamed for "promoting and perpetuating a toxic culture within Moz", so "widely blamed" doesn't seem accurate. I've also never heard of the other stuff you mention. If he was openly mocking/punishing customers, maybe you can provide a link where he did that? Moz did spend a bunch of $ on new stuff vs. core stuff-- but I think that was after Rand stepped away from the CEO chair. Certainly the layoffs were after that by several years. Not saying he bears ZERO responsibility, but hanging that on him seems pretty unfair. Here's his post about the strategic zigs/zags and layoffs: https://sparktoro.com/blog/moz-returns-to-seo/ https://sparktoro.com/blog/moz-returns-to-seo/ Here's a quote from the post: "I’m also really thankful that I wasn’t in a managerial position and didn’t have to make what were, I’m sure, insanely tough calls about who stayed at Moz and who didn’t. I feel guilty and awful for all who were in that position, and all those who are seeking jobs now. I remember what it was like when Geraldine and many of her coworkers were laid off and the feelings of doubt and fear, resentment and confusion that washed over us. My empathy and my heart are with everyone on both sides of this heart-wrenching process."
  - SyneRyder 9y ago
    You can read about some of that in previous posts on Rand's own blog over the years. There's "My Complicated Relationship With No Longer Being CEO" from late 2015, written 2 years after he stepped down as CEO, where he admits regretting stepping down and his "displeasure and frustration" with ways the new CEO was running things: https://sparktoro.com/blog/my-complicated-relationship-with-no-longer-being-ceo/ https://sparktoro.com/blog/my-complicated-relationship-with-... Somewhat complicating things, he originally published that post on the company's own website, as evidenced by this link: https://moz.com/rand/my-complicated-relationship-with-no-longer-being-ceo/ https://moz.com/rand/my-complicated-relationship-with-no-lon... [I do hope Rand will be happier in his new startup - it feels like he has been heading in a different direction to his former company for a while, at least from reading his blog.]
- jeffmould 9y ago
  Got me as well, I think more so that I didn't see that coming. It was almost like one last jab at Moz, however, it sounds like for the most part it must have been somewhat amicable as he still remaining chairman, working on a new product rollout, and will most likely continue filming the whiteboard Friday videos. On the other hand, I wonder if he gives a hint as to what may have happened in his tips, particularly the 4th tip.
mooreds 9y ago
When I was at a company that one of the founders departed from a few years back, one of the generous gestures the remaining founder offered was to keep the departing founder's email address alive "forever" (I left a few years later, not sure how long that was). A simple gesture that cost the company near nothing and acknowledged the long history of the departing founder. I don't know if Rand asked, but it seems a simple item to offer.
- zacharycohn 9y ago
  This is actually pretty complicated and messy. A founder's email address is still tied to a lot of accounts. Either as a login, or the contact email address, or the password reset email address. Sometimes you can't disassociate the email address with the account. People who missed the memo about them leaving reach out to that email address looking for the founder/executive, and instead they reach someone who no longer works there. If you're using something like Google Docs, a founder who retains their email address still has access to virtually all of the most important company documents - OR someone has to go through every document and manually remove them (but not even that will get them all). If the founder leaves on good terms, it seems like not a big deal, but it ends up being a huge liability. [I'm on the board of a non-profit who just switched executive directors, and we had to have a big discussion about this.]
  - mooreds 9y ago
    Well, I spent a lot of time before the founder departed making sure that all accounts were tied to a generic alias (admin@... or something similar). This is good practice whether or not the account is kept open, because if you close the account and then the password reset email bounces, what then? If you convert a google account to an alias, you can solve the google doc issue (delete the account, which lets you transfer all the docs to another google account, then set up the alias). Good point about missing the memo, but that could happen even if there was no email setup. But I appreciate the comment and it does shed some light on the complexities of this. I still think it'd be worth it. I'm sure it is bittersweet/complex for the departing founder as well--they get to continue to have folks email them at the same address they've had for years, but every email they receive is a reminder of the company they've left.
orliesaurus 9y ago
Rand has been a huge influence on thousands of people, and if you ever launched something on the web, at some point you must have used their tool for a reason or another. Personally I really loved the way he explained complex things with his whiteboard in those weekly videos. These are great starter points to understand the heavy cog of SEO world. I don't know how many times I directed people to their blog for self-study/research etc. I am sure their success wasn't due just to him, but also an incredible team of people with him, but he was the face of the company at Moz until now - I wish him well! Weird that in his goodbye piece he says he did not leave entirely of his own accord: > "On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is “fired and escorted out of the building by security” and 10 is “left entirely of his own accord on wonderful terms,” my departure is around a 4...” That is something that the piece doesn't answer, probably something going on, but he still has major shares and influence in the company i am sure!
VectorLock 9y ago
Not 'Mozilla' before you get too far into reading this.
aetherspawn 9y ago
Moz /= Mozilla was a click bait for me, if I'll be honest. I know there's nothing that can be done. Tagging [Not Mozilla] would be stupid.
Narkov 9y ago
Pardon my ignorance, but who is this? I can't find a name anywhere in the article?!
- edude03 9y ago
  Rand Fishkin according to this article https://searchengineland.com/rand-fishkin-announces-new-company-sparktoro-leaving-moz-company-co-founded-293204 https://searchengineland.com/rand-fishkin-announces-new-comp...
- moonka 9y ago
  Rand Fishkin, former CEO and Co-Founder of Moz (formerly SEOMoz).
Roedou 9y ago
I don't know how well known Rand or Moz are on here, but it's great to see this posted. I feel like SEO has been an area that gets looked down upon from certain sectors. In the 10+ years that Rand built up the company, the industry changed a lot - and he's been a voice for consistently doing things authentically and in a way that makes the internet better. You'd also be hard pressed to find anyone who has been so transparent in sharing everything they've learned along the way - a LOT of folks in digital marketing began learning from his blog posts and videos. I'm pretty excited for all his next ventures, and looking forward to the book for his take on advice for startup founders. Plus, the 'safer-events project' is in response to incidents that one would hope no one has to experience again. (And despite some harder times, Moz seems to be on the up again; they have some top-class products, should have some interesting new tools over the coming year.) Good luck to Rand and SparkToro!
weinzierl 9y ago
Say what you will about Rand, but he is a terribly good writer - and man is that guy productive. Honest question: How can you get basically fired [1] as an employee while still being the chairperson. [1] The message is cryptic, but I read it that way. Here is the quote: „On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is “fired and escorted out of the building by security” and 10 is “left entirely of his own accord on wonderful terms,” my departure is around a 4. That makes today a hard one, cognitively and emotionally. I have a lot of sadness, a heap of regrets, and a smattering of resentment too.„
- tomhoward 9y ago
  The chairperson doesn't have dictatorial powers over the company. They are just the leader of the board of directors. Any employee still needs the support of their managers and colleagues in order to retain their role, and if that becomes lost beyond redemption (which it clearly has in this case), your role as an employee is over. But influence over the board is still determined by the size of your shareholding, so as long as Rand has enough shares and support from other directors, he can remain as chairperson. The board and executive may indeed want him to continue as chairperson long-term, as he's still the identifiable figurehead of the company and knows its history better than anyone. Being a director/chairperson vs being a manager in a growth-stage company require very different credentials and abilities.

75 points by freddier 9y ago

Rand has been an inspiration way before the topics of honesty and empathy were trendy. He was the spark that ignited my interest towards getting out of the usual "let's not discuss difficult topics", and as usual his post is a fantastic example of how to be honest without being a jerk. Aside from this, it's great to see him on a different journey, although I'm sure leaving Moz must've been hard.

dhruvkar 9y ago

Any links on how the company started? I had no inkling of its origins till reading this article.

Roedou 9y ago
The company has been around since 1981, but you wouldn't recognize it as the same company before ~2004. https://moz.com/blog/the-history-of-seomoz https://moz.com/blog/the-history-of-seomoz

elliotec 9y ago

I can't help but be curious of his leaving circumstances. >>> On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is “fired and escorted out of the building by security” and 10 is “left entirely of his own accord on wonderful terms,” my departure is around a 4.

jorblumesea 9y ago
He's been on his way out for quite awhile, having stepped back from day to day operations in July '17. He wasn't the most professional leader and was widely blamed for promoting and perpetuating a toxic culture within Moz. This included publicly attacking people in the industry, openly mocking and punishing customers for criticizing his product(s), and politicizing honest feedback. In addition, blew a ton of money on pie in the sky ideas that led nowhere while letting the core product stagnate, only having to lay off 30% of their workforce. Never worked there, take this with a grain of salt, just the word on the street in startup land :)
- webwright 9y ago
  I've been in the Seattle startup scene for ~12 years and haven't ever heard him blamed for "promoting and perpetuating a toxic culture within Moz", so "widely blamed" doesn't seem accurate. I've also never heard of the other stuff you mention. If he was openly mocking/punishing customers, maybe you can provide a link where he did that? Moz did spend a bunch of $ on new stuff vs. core stuff-- but I think that was after Rand stepped away from the CEO chair. Certainly the layoffs were after that by several years. Not saying he bears ZERO responsibility, but hanging that on him seems pretty unfair. Here's his post about the strategic zigs/zags and layoffs: https://sparktoro.com/blog/moz-returns-to-seo/ https://sparktoro.com/blog/moz-returns-to-seo/ Here's a quote from the post: "I’m also really thankful that I wasn’t in a managerial position and didn’t have to make what were, I’m sure, insanely tough calls about who stayed at Moz and who didn’t. I feel guilty and awful for all who were in that position, and all those who are seeking jobs now. I remember what it was like when Geraldine and many of her coworkers were laid off and the feelings of doubt and fear, resentment and confusion that washed over us. My empathy and my heart are with everyone on both sides of this heart-wrenching process."
- SyneRyder 9y ago
  You can read about some of that in previous posts on Rand's own blog over the years. There's "My Complicated Relationship With No Longer Being CEO" from late 2015, written 2 years after he stepped down as CEO, where he admits regretting stepping down and his "displeasure and frustration" with ways the new CEO was running things: https://sparktoro.com/blog/my-complicated-relationship-with-no-longer-being-ceo/ https://sparktoro.com/blog/my-complicated-relationship-with-... Somewhat complicating things, he originally published that post on the company's own website, as evidenced by this link: https://moz.com/rand/my-complicated-relationship-with-no-longer-being-ceo/ https://moz.com/rand/my-complicated-relationship-with-no-lon... [I do hope Rand will be happier in his new startup - it feels like he has been heading in a different direction to his former company for a while, at least from reading his blog.]
jeffmould 9y ago
Got me as well, I think more so that I didn't see that coming. It was almost like one last jab at Moz, however, it sounds like for the most part it must have been somewhat amicable as he still remaining chairman, working on a new product rollout, and will most likely continue filming the whiteboard Friday videos. On the other hand, I wonder if he gives a hint as to what may have happened in his tips, particularly the 4th tip.

mooreds 9y ago

When I was at a company that one of the founders departed from a few years back, one of the generous gestures the remaining founder offered was to keep the departing founder's email address alive "forever" (I left a few years later, not sure how long that was). A simple gesture that cost the company near nothing and acknowledged the long history of the departing founder. I don't know if Rand asked, but it seems a simple item to offer.

zacharycohn 9y ago
This is actually pretty complicated and messy. A founder's email address is still tied to a lot of accounts. Either as a login, or the contact email address, or the password reset email address. Sometimes you can't disassociate the email address with the account. People who missed the memo about them leaving reach out to that email address looking for the founder/executive, and instead they reach someone who no longer works there. If you're using something like Google Docs, a founder who retains their email address still has access to virtually all of the most important company documents - OR someone has to go through every document and manually remove them (but not even that will get them all). If the founder leaves on good terms, it seems like not a big deal, but it ends up being a huge liability. [I'm on the board of a non-profit who just switched executive directors, and we had to have a big discussion about this.]
- mooreds 9y ago
  Well, I spent a lot of time before the founder departed making sure that all accounts were tied to a generic alias (admin@... or something similar). This is good practice whether or not the account is kept open, because if you close the account and then the password reset email bounces, what then? If you convert a google account to an alias, you can solve the google doc issue (delete the account, which lets you transfer all the docs to another google account, then set up the alias). Good point about missing the memo, but that could happen even if there was no email setup. But I appreciate the comment and it does shed some light on the complexities of this. I still think it'd be worth it. I'm sure it is bittersweet/complex for the departing founder as well--they get to continue to have folks email them at the same address they've had for years, but every email they receive is a reminder of the company they've left.

orliesaurus 9y ago

Rand has been a huge influence on thousands of people, and if you ever launched something on the web, at some point you must have used their tool for a reason or another. Personally I really loved the way he explained complex things with his whiteboard in those weekly videos. These are great starter points to understand the heavy cog of SEO world. I don't know how many times I directed people to their blog for self-study/research etc. I am sure their success wasn't due just to him, but also an incredible team of people with him, but he was the face of the company at Moz until now - I wish him well! Weird that in his goodbye piece he says he did not leave entirely of his own accord: > "On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is “fired and escorted out of the building by security” and 10 is “left entirely of his own accord on wonderful terms,” my departure is around a 4...” That is something that the piece doesn't answer, probably something going on, but he still has major shares and influence in the company i am sure!

VectorLock 9y ago

Not 'Mozilla' before you get too far into reading this.

aetherspawn 9y ago

Moz /= Mozilla was a click bait for me, if I'll be honest. I know there's nothing that can be done. Tagging [Not Mozilla] would be stupid.

Narkov 9y ago

Pardon my ignorance, but who is this? I can't find a name anywhere in the article?!

edude03 9y ago
Rand Fishkin according to this article https://searchengineland.com/rand-fishkin-announces-new-company-sparktoro-leaving-moz-company-co-founded-293204 https://searchengineland.com/rand-fishkin-announces-new-comp...
moonka 9y ago
Rand Fishkin, former CEO and Co-Founder of Moz (formerly SEOMoz).

Roedou 9y ago

I don't know how well known Rand or Moz are on here, but it's great to see this posted. I feel like SEO has been an area that gets looked down upon from certain sectors. In the 10+ years that Rand built up the company, the industry changed a lot - and he's been a voice for consistently doing things authentically and in a way that makes the internet better. You'd also be hard pressed to find anyone who has been so transparent in sharing everything they've learned along the way - a LOT of folks in digital marketing began learning from his blog posts and videos. I'm pretty excited for all his next ventures, and looking forward to the book for his take on advice for startup founders. Plus, the 'safer-events project' is in response to incidents that one would hope no one has to experience again. (And despite some harder times, Moz seems to be on the up again; they have some top-class products, should have some interesting new tools over the coming year.) Good luck to Rand and SparkToro!

weinzierl 9y ago

Say what you will about Rand, but he is a terribly good writer - and man is that guy productive. Honest question: How can you get basically fired [1] as an employee while still being the chairperson. [1] The message is cryptic, but I read it that way. Here is the quote: „On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is “fired and escorted out of the building by security” and 10 is “left entirely of his own accord on wonderful terms,” my departure is around a 4. That makes today a hard one, cognitively and emotionally. I have a lot of sadness, a heap of regrets, and a smattering of resentment too.„

tomhoward 9y ago
The chairperson doesn't have dictatorial powers over the company. They are just the leader of the board of directors. Any employee still needs the support of their managers and colleagues in order to retain their role, and if that becomes lost beyond redemption (which it clearly has in this case), your role as an employee is over. But influence over the board is still determined by the size of your shareholding, so as long as Rand has enough shares and support from other directors, he can remain as chairperson. The board and executive may indeed want him to continue as chairperson long-term, as he's still the identifiable figurehead of the company and knows its history better than anyone. Being a director/chairperson vs being a manager in a growth-stage company require very different credentials and abilities.