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I'm skeptical whether Hyperloop as described in Musk's original paper is practical. On the other hand, I think it's possible that some variant which is clearly

by curtis 9y ago

I'm skeptical whether Hyperloop as described in Musk's original paper is practical. On the other hand, I think it's possible that some variant which is clearly Hyperloop-inspired might actually be feasible. You can probably make the case that we're already in Hyperloop-inspired territory, since as far as I can tell everyone working on Hyperloop has dispensed with air-bearings and moved to maglev for levitation.

lisper 9y ago
Yes, but it's still in an evacuated metal tube. That's a severe constraint. BTW, going to maglev completely blows the original economic model out of the water. The whole point of the original hyperloop was that the track was going to be cheap because it was just a welded metal tube. Now it's a welded metal tube with a maglev track inside. That's no longer cheap. In fact, it's a reinvention of maglev in a way that makes it even more expensive. If maglev wasn't economically viable before you put it in a tube (and it wasn't) it won't be economically viable after.
- gnode 9y ago
  I don't see any reason why using maglev means the track has to be anything clever. There are methods where the vehicle contains the only active part, and the track can simply be a metal strip, such as servo-levitation (varying the strength of an electromagnet on board the vehicle with feedback), induced current levitation, or by using a rotating set of fixed magnets.
  - lisper 9y ago
    I must confess I'm not up on the details of maglev technology (which is why it's not central to my argument). I have to wonder, though, if maglev is so cheap and easy why hasn't it been deployed more already?
    - gnode 9y ago
      While the cost of passive maglev track isn't huge, conventional rail networks which you'd be competing with already exist, so typically would only be justifiable for new networks. Safety is another large concern; it's easy to make a fail-deadly maglev train. While maglev trains are the fastest, safety keeps them an emerging technology.
      - lisper 9y ago
        OK... so why do you think that a maglev hyperloop will not be rendered infeasible by the exact same problems?
        gnode 9y ago
        I don't. I just don't think the cost of the track is the significant issue. I think the main issue will be safety.
        lisper 9y ago
        OK, then we agree. :-)
    - Atheros 9y ago
      Because maglev isn't cheap. [This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/6ogwml/ny_to_dc_in_29_minutes_elon_musk_gets_goahead_for/dkjjp2a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/6ogwml/ny_to_dc_in_29_...) runs the numbers of a Hyperloop in a tunnel using maglev.
      - lisper 9y ago
        That is a great link, thank you! I think it is telling that the best analysis of this issue that anyone has been able to find in this thread has been in a reddit comment.

by curtis 9y ago

lisper 9y ago

Yes, but it's still in an evacuated metal tube. That's a severe constraint. BTW, going to maglev completely blows the original economic model out of the water. The whole point of the original hyperloop was that the track was going to be cheap because it was just a welded metal tube. Now it's a welded metal tube with a maglev track inside. That's no longer cheap. In fact, it's a reinvention of maglev in a way that makes it even more expensive. If maglev wasn't economically viable before you put it in a tube (and it wasn't) it won't be economically viable after.

gnode 9y ago
I don't see any reason why using maglev means the track has to be anything clever. There are methods where the vehicle contains the only active part, and the track can simply be a metal strip, such as servo-levitation (varying the strength of an electromagnet on board the vehicle with feedback), induced current levitation, or by using a rotating set of fixed magnets.
- lisper 9y ago
  I must confess I'm not up on the details of maglev technology (which is why it's not central to my argument). I have to wonder, though, if maglev is so cheap and easy why hasn't it been deployed more already?
  - gnode 9y ago
    While the cost of passive maglev track isn't huge, conventional rail networks which you'd be competing with already exist, so typically would only be justifiable for new networks. Safety is another large concern; it's easy to make a fail-deadly maglev train. While maglev trains are the fastest, safety keeps them an emerging technology.
    - lisper 9y ago
      OK... so why do you think that a maglev hyperloop will not be rendered infeasible by the exact same problems?
      - gnode 9y ago
        I don't. I just don't think the cost of the track is the significant issue. I think the main issue will be safety.
        lisper 9y ago
        OK, then we agree. :-)
  - Atheros 9y ago
    Because maglev isn't cheap. [This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/6ogwml/ny_to_dc_in_29_minutes_elon_musk_gets_goahead_for/dkjjp2a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/6ogwml/ny_to_dc_in_29_...) runs the numbers of a Hyperloop in a tunnel using maglev.
    - lisper 9y ago
      That is a great link, thank you! I think it is telling that the best analysis of this issue that anyone has been able to find in this thread has been in a reddit comment.