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I get you have good intentions, but be careful not to assume you have a handle on what the physical health troubles are, nor that you understand the exact circu

I get you have good intentions, but be careful not to assume you have a handle on what the physical health troubles are, nor that you understand the exact circumstances preventing action that seem easily surmountable to you. It can be more harmful than good to suggest stuff like this if you've missed the mark in your assumptions, speaking as someone who experiences a lot of well-wishing advice for similar reasons. Sometimes it's better to listen than explain. I explain it like this: if you're "normal," for lack of a better word, interacting with someone with major depression can feel like debugging a program that is currently in an undefined state. Nothing makes sense, and your rules for how a program should behave are irrelevant, because depression makes me think in ways that are completely bananas (both to you and me, oddly enough). But, you can't just restart the process, so take your time understanding what's going on before acting; sometimes, action is not the right course at all. I'm not trying to pick on you. I just see this a lot on HN when someone brings up major disorders -- "just work out! just garden! just be happy!" -- and it's troublesome in general, not just you.

castlecrasher2 9y ago
Alternately, people who give advice likely experienced similar issues and overcame them. I sure have, and would echo the same recommendations, but like I was, OP just gives excuses why he can't do the simplest thing like recalibrating hobby expectations. OP is reaching out for compassion but with such a tiny social net only internet strangers can help, and what else can they do but suggest their own life experiences? It sounds like OP has no family or friends to interact with let alone get help with tasks, so if he wants a good avenue of support then he should contact a local church asking for a ride to attend then get to know people there.
- hestipod 9y ago
  I disagree with this notion advice is mostly rooted in similar experience. 15 years of anecdata anyway have shown me differently. It's mostly rooted in well meaning of course, and I am not implying people are being malicious or anything. People do commonly ignore relevant issues that change the playing field in any given situation. Also when you do meet others in bad situations that have overcome there is a strong survivor bias thing going on around them which leads to people being upset/confused when it doesnt work for you. You must simply be doing it wrong, right? People seem to often to get bothered/angry/offended with you if their advice doesn't work or isn't applicable. I understand the psychological root of this, but it's still disheartening and kills me when I see people feel like people like me simply don't want to be happy or have lives. I didn't post begging for a friend to cure my lonliness. I have far more pressing issues. I posted because it's relevant to my life and cant do much else atm. You have mentioned church a couple of times and I am not ignoring it...I just don't know how to respond without offending you or someone else. It's just not my thing...I have tried it more than once. I don't want to debate or upset anyone. I probably worry too much about what others think of me...but it does make me feel worse to spread any bad feeling. I didn't downvote you either and always worry people will think I am giving them a "SCREW YOU WRONG" karma mark when I see their posts greyed. Sort of wish downvotes weren't a thing honestly.
  - castlecrasher2 9y ago
    Yes, I certainly appreciate you downplaying the mental issues I've had to overcome. I've certainly had external intervention but I feel that you suggesting my recovery is simply "survivor bias" is diminishing my experience in favor of making yourself feel better. Your problems-barring your physical issues-aren't unique; you need your community, you need hobbies, but you say "Been saying for ages I am gonna lay the story out here and hope for some miracle plan" as if someone else is going to tell you your story. How will your life be fixed unless you fix it? And don't mistake my church suggestion for preaching religion. If your community has social events you could otherwise attend, go for it.
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    > Sort of wish downvotes weren't a thing honestly. I was fine with them until the graying out thing, which turned them into basically a demonstration of the power of silencing. All it takes is four people to consider your comment unworthy, and you might as well have not said anything at all; it's oddly futuristic, to use a safe adjective, that the more people who dislike your comment the more difficult it becomes to read. What if we applied that to other situations? Four people dislike what you're saying; please wear this mask that makes it difficult to hear your words. And now that you're wearing that mask, people are more likely to not like anything else you say and avoid your corner of the room. If you're really problematic, we have a safe space in another room, or we've developed technology that completely mutes you but it still sounds to you like you're talking. Enjoy the party! If downvotes were intended for removing problematic discussion, that's one thing, but HN's position is that downvotes are fine for disagreement, too. So if you say something disagreeable, you are slowly filtered to irrelevance. The macro of that arrangement, which optimizes for discussion that the community will find acceptable and agreeable at the expense of contrarian thought or opinion, is apparently lost on everyone who I've discussed it with, so I've stopped bothering for the most part. Graying out of downvoted comments is honestly a symptom that contributes to perceptions of the valley, based on my conversations with people outside of this community -- I was present for a conversation about Thiel among midwest tech folks, and it was specifically brought up as cancerous to thought. Good news is there are stylesheets that disable it. It isn't going anywhere, so if you feel like I do, adapt. That and showdead are useful.
- NutriSugar 9y ago
  >Alternately, people who give advice likely experienced similar issues and overcame them. Think about this like if someone was talking about fiscal matters. If you had someone who worked their way into the middle class telling poor people helpful tips to do the same, what is the chance they are overlooking factors in their success that aren't easily replicated for others or which was more based on luck? I grew up in the middle of rural nowhere where most my old classmates hold minimum wage jobs if they have jobs. I worked hard to get ahead, but I was also assisted by things outside of my control. Natural talents and lucky opportunities being the two largest ones. Socially it's the opposite. For example, contacting a stranger to ask for a ride can be as difficult for someone as learning a new programming language. Some can do it with no difficulty, others have a major block. What happens when someone tries a new hobby and realizes they are still isolated, even from the community of others engaged in the same hobby? Underlying a lot of this, be it for making friends or finding a career, is the issue of learned helplessness.

castlecrasher2 9y ago

Alternately, people who give advice likely experienced similar issues and overcame them. I sure have, and would echo the same recommendations, but like I was, OP just gives excuses why he can't do the simplest thing like recalibrating hobby expectations. OP is reaching out for compassion but with such a tiny social net only internet strangers can help, and what else can they do but suggest their own life experiences? It sounds like OP has no family or friends to interact with let alone get help with tasks, so if he wants a good avenue of support then he should contact a local church asking for a ride to attend then get to know people there.

hestipod 9y ago
I disagree with this notion advice is mostly rooted in similar experience. 15 years of anecdata anyway have shown me differently. It's mostly rooted in well meaning of course, and I am not implying people are being malicious or anything. People do commonly ignore relevant issues that change the playing field in any given situation. Also when you do meet others in bad situations that have overcome there is a strong survivor bias thing going on around them which leads to people being upset/confused when it doesnt work for you. You must simply be doing it wrong, right? People seem to often to get bothered/angry/offended with you if their advice doesn't work or isn't applicable. I understand the psychological root of this, but it's still disheartening and kills me when I see people feel like people like me simply don't want to be happy or have lives. I didn't post begging for a friend to cure my lonliness. I have far more pressing issues. I posted because it's relevant to my life and cant do much else atm. You have mentioned church a couple of times and I am not ignoring it...I just don't know how to respond without offending you or someone else. It's just not my thing...I have tried it more than once. I don't want to debate or upset anyone. I probably worry too much about what others think of me...but it does make me feel worse to spread any bad feeling. I didn't downvote you either and always worry people will think I am giving them a "SCREW YOU WRONG" karma mark when I see their posts greyed. Sort of wish downvotes weren't a thing honestly.
- castlecrasher2 9y ago
  Yes, I certainly appreciate you downplaying the mental issues I've had to overcome. I've certainly had external intervention but I feel that you suggesting my recovery is simply "survivor bias" is diminishing my experience in favor of making yourself feel better. Your problems-barring your physical issues-aren't unique; you need your community, you need hobbies, but you say "Been saying for ages I am gonna lay the story out here and hope for some miracle plan" as if someone else is going to tell you your story. How will your life be fixed unless you fix it? And don't mistake my church suggestion for preaching religion. If your community has social events you could otherwise attend, go for it.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  > Sort of wish downvotes weren't a thing honestly. I was fine with them until the graying out thing, which turned them into basically a demonstration of the power of silencing. All it takes is four people to consider your comment unworthy, and you might as well have not said anything at all; it's oddly futuristic, to use a safe adjective, that the more people who dislike your comment the more difficult it becomes to read. What if we applied that to other situations? Four people dislike what you're saying; please wear this mask that makes it difficult to hear your words. And now that you're wearing that mask, people are more likely to not like anything else you say and avoid your corner of the room. If you're really problematic, we have a safe space in another room, or we've developed technology that completely mutes you but it still sounds to you like you're talking. Enjoy the party! If downvotes were intended for removing problematic discussion, that's one thing, but HN's position is that downvotes are fine for disagreement, too. So if you say something disagreeable, you are slowly filtered to irrelevance. The macro of that arrangement, which optimizes for discussion that the community will find acceptable and agreeable at the expense of contrarian thought or opinion, is apparently lost on everyone who I've discussed it with, so I've stopped bothering for the most part. Graying out of downvoted comments is honestly a symptom that contributes to perceptions of the valley, based on my conversations with people outside of this community -- I was present for a conversation about Thiel among midwest tech folks, and it was specifically brought up as cancerous to thought. Good news is there are stylesheets that disable it. It isn't going anywhere, so if you feel like I do, adapt. That and showdead are useful.
NutriSugar 9y ago
>Alternately, people who give advice likely experienced similar issues and overcame them. Think about this like if someone was talking about fiscal matters. If you had someone who worked their way into the middle class telling poor people helpful tips to do the same, what is the chance they are overlooking factors in their success that aren't easily replicated for others or which was more based on luck? I grew up in the middle of rural nowhere where most my old classmates hold minimum wage jobs if they have jobs. I worked hard to get ahead, but I was also assisted by things outside of my control. Natural talents and lucky opportunities being the two largest ones. Socially it's the opposite. For example, contacting a stranger to ask for a ride can be as difficult for someone as learning a new programming language. Some can do it with no difficulty, others have a major block. What happens when someone tries a new hobby and realizes they are still isolated, even from the community of others engaged in the same hobby? Underlying a lot of this, be it for making friends or finding a career, is the issue of learned helplessness.