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Thank you for this honest post. When I read it I cannot help but think of how your grandfather fought thousands and thousands of kilometers away from his home (

by binarray2000 9y ago

Thank you for this honest post. When I read it I cannot help but think of how your grandfather fought thousands and thousands of kilometers away from his home (Japan, South Africa, Indonesia). In places that have never threatened him, his family or his people. If not for imperial interests, could you please expand on why he did it (if you know it)?

dade_ 9y ago
Your words are painful to read. Many people from thousands of kilometers away, liberated the Netherlands from Germany... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_in_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_in_World_War_II
- 24gttghh 9y ago
  I'm sorry but you seem to be ignoring the jist of his comment [0], and entire centuries of arguably genocidal European (in this case Dutch, but every country and their uncle with the means to do so, did to some extent; lest you think I'm singling out the Dutch) colonialism. Emphasis mine: [0]>"In places that have never threatened him, his family or his people. If not for imperial interests, [...]"
  - binarray2000 9y ago
    That is exactly my point. The link dade_ has posted has interesting new and interesting details on that. First sentence under "Dutch East Indies and the war in the Far East" heading is telling: > On December 8, 1941, the Netherlands declared war on the Japanese Empire.[35] On January 10, 1942 the Japanese invaded the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia).
- user982 9y ago
  > Many people from thousands of kilometers away, liberated the Netherlands from Germany... Analogously, Indonesia should be grateful to the Japanese for traveling thousands of kilometers to liberate them from the Dutch Netherlands.
  - refurb 9y ago
    Umm... probably not. Experience of the occupation varied considerably, depending upon where one lived and one's social position. Many who lived in areas considered important to the war effort experienced torture, sex slavery, arbitrary arrest and execution, and other war crimes. Many thousands of people were taken away from Indonesia as forced labourers (romusha) for Japanese military projects, including the Burma-Siam and Saketi-Bayah railways, and suffered or died as a result of ill-treatment and starvation. Between four and 10 million romusha in Java were forced to work by the Japanese military.[22] About 270,000 of these Javanese labourers were sent to other Japanese-held areas in South East Asia, Only 52,000 were repatriated to Java, meaning that there was a death rate of 80%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Dutch_East_Indies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Dut...
    - user982 9y ago
      Agreed. I was mostly being facetious; although Indonesian independence might not have occurred without the effects of the Japanese occupation, the actuality was obviously nothing to be grateful for.
    - equalunique 9y ago
      As an Indonesian who was kept in a labor camp by the Japanese, my grandma (aforementioned Grandpa's wife) will attest that the Japanese were absolutely brutal. Her sisters were raped in prison. They starved on one cup of rice per day. In occupied Jakarta, a town square with water fountain in the center was filled with crocodiles, and people who resisted the Japanese were thrown inside it - any one who closed their eyes or turned their head to look away was punished. Japanese occupation was objectively bad, although the Dutch were known to be extremely harsh at times too.
equalunique 9y ago
He was a Dutch imperialist fighting Japanese imperialists, and also collateral damage for United States imperialists. Into the 70s, he ended up retiring in the United States, while his brother who also fought alongside him, ended up becoming a Dutch diplomat in Japan. Why did they do it? For the pension, of course. Can't sustain pensions without wealthy governments. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- binarray2000 9y ago
  Thank you for the honest answer. Much appreciated! (And upvoted!)
  - equalunique 9y ago
    Thanks. I upvoted your comment too.

dade_ 9y ago

Your words are painful to read. Many people from thousands of kilometers away, liberated the Netherlands from Germany... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_in_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_in_World_War_II

24gttghh 9y ago
I'm sorry but you seem to be ignoring the jist of his comment [0], and entire centuries of arguably genocidal European (in this case Dutch, but every country and their uncle with the means to do so, did to some extent; lest you think I'm singling out the Dutch) colonialism. Emphasis mine: [0]>"In places that have never threatened him, his family or his people. If not for imperial interests, [...]"
- binarray2000 9y ago
  That is exactly my point. The link dade_ has posted has interesting new and interesting details on that. First sentence under "Dutch East Indies and the war in the Far East" heading is telling: > On December 8, 1941, the Netherlands declared war on the Japanese Empire.[35] On January 10, 1942 the Japanese invaded the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia).
user982 9y ago
> Many people from thousands of kilometers away, liberated the Netherlands from Germany... Analogously, Indonesia should be grateful to the Japanese for traveling thousands of kilometers to liberate them from the Dutch Netherlands.
- refurb 9y ago
  Umm... probably not. Experience of the occupation varied considerably, depending upon where one lived and one's social position. Many who lived in areas considered important to the war effort experienced torture, sex slavery, arbitrary arrest and execution, and other war crimes. Many thousands of people were taken away from Indonesia as forced labourers (romusha) for Japanese military projects, including the Burma-Siam and Saketi-Bayah railways, and suffered or died as a result of ill-treatment and starvation. Between four and 10 million romusha in Java were forced to work by the Japanese military.[22] About 270,000 of these Javanese labourers were sent to other Japanese-held areas in South East Asia, Only 52,000 were repatriated to Java, meaning that there was a death rate of 80%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Dutch_East_Indies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_the_Dut...
  - user982 9y ago
    Agreed. I was mostly being facetious; although Indonesian independence might not have occurred without the effects of the Japanese occupation, the actuality was obviously nothing to be grateful for.
  - equalunique 9y ago
    As an Indonesian who was kept in a labor camp by the Japanese, my grandma (aforementioned Grandpa's wife) will attest that the Japanese were absolutely brutal. Her sisters were raped in prison. They starved on one cup of rice per day. In occupied Jakarta, a town square with water fountain in the center was filled with crocodiles, and people who resisted the Japanese were thrown inside it - any one who closed their eyes or turned their head to look away was punished. Japanese occupation was objectively bad, although the Dutch were known to be extremely harsh at times too.

equalunique 9y ago

He was a Dutch imperialist fighting Japanese imperialists, and also collateral damage for United States imperialists. Into the 70s, he ended up retiring in the United States, while his brother who also fought alongside him, ended up becoming a Dutch diplomat in Japan. Why did they do it? For the pension, of course. Can't sustain pensions without wealthy governments. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

binarray2000 9y ago
Thank you for the honest answer. Much appreciated! (And upvoted!)
- equalunique 9y ago
  Thanks. I upvoted your comment too.