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I would argue that there's also another issue at play in this particular topic, or trope. We've created this weird dichotomy in society where people pretend tha

I would argue that there's also another issue at play in this particular topic, or trope. We've created this weird dichotomy in society where people pretend that children must choose if they want to be a 'math nerd' or a 'jock.' I'm not really sure that comes from and it's never been my experience. I competed in mathematics events at a national level, was on the chess club, and also wrestled varsity and enjoy weight training. And I never experienced anything except friendliness and respect, even as a certainly somewhat weird 'outsider' having swapped schools multiple times. The ancient Greeks, who helped develop much of the foundation of modern technology and society, emphasized the relevance of strength in mind and body, and I think that's something that we've increasingly lost. And that's ironic since if you look at many examples of stereotypically 'mental' enterprises, you'll find people who follow this tend to populate the top. Imagine, if you don't know, what the chess world champion must look like. He earned his grandmaster title at 13 years old, and has been playing seriously since he was a child. Here [1] is a picture of him, Magnus Carlsen. [1] - http://oi65.tinypic.com/5vw2t5.jpg http://oi65.tinypic.com/5vw2t5.jpg

lsc 9y ago
I think it's about values, not about physique. You can be big and nerdy and while being big can stop the most physical manifestations of social ostracization, my observation is that isn't the most painful part. I mean, I think the other part you are missing is that a lot of us who grew up as "nerds" are socially... wrong in ways that are less socially accepted than violence. I don't think being on a sports team would solve that problem.
- karthikvellanki 9y ago
  Could you elaborate on the other ways that 'nerds' could be wrong?
  - lsc 9y ago
    so first? go read what Paul Graham wrote about this[1] It does a good job of explaining US school culture. but Graham was far more functional than many. I mean, in general terms, 'nerds' often don't have the social skills expected of others their age. Sometimes, it's like Graham says; it's just a matter of practice. Other times it's that we just don't have the same background or aptitude for navigating emotions; we didn't have that same ability to conform. I mean, usually it's a combination of those things; conforming in the way the other students do is harder than it is for most people, so you rebel from them the way you rebel against your parents, only your peers don't have the depth of understanding, the patience, and the duty of care your parents have. And it was more brutal than Graham makes it out to be, because as a teen, it feels like that is just how the world is. For me, my escape was that I got an IT job in high school... it was like heaven. For two hours a day after school, I was treated like a human being with valuable skills, and people put up with my minor social transgressions because they expected a little bit of acting out from a kid. Really, I think that's most of the difference between a 'nerd' and a regular troubled child; the nerd has an outlet, a haven, and a future. A nerd can withdraw into books rather than just snowballing the behavioral problems. (though, to other students, reading books is seen as a behavioral problem. Still, at least in my school career, if you just wanted to read during recess hours, there was almost always a friendly teacher who would let you eat lunch and read in their class, if you were quiet.) But, my point, I guess, is just that there are plenty of American children who are smart and study and do sports and are popular.... people like what TangoTrotFox describes further up this thread. People who are socially skilled enough that they know, for example, that you don't read in front of other people. Those people aren't properly 'nerds' - they're just smart. Most of us would have been those people if we could have... but we lacked the social aptitude. But I'm still not being terribly specific. I guess a lot of that is that it's embarrassing and painful... but I think my peers would have described me as mean and arrogant. [1]http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

lsc 9y ago

I think it's about values, not about physique. You can be big and nerdy and while being big can stop the most physical manifestations of social ostracization, my observation is that isn't the most painful part. I mean, I think the other part you are missing is that a lot of us who grew up as "nerds" are socially... wrong in ways that are less socially accepted than violence. I don't think being on a sports team would solve that problem.

karthikvellanki 9y ago
Could you elaborate on the other ways that 'nerds' could be wrong?
- lsc 9y ago
  so first? go read what Paul Graham wrote about this[1] It does a good job of explaining US school culture. but Graham was far more functional than many. I mean, in general terms, 'nerds' often don't have the social skills expected of others their age. Sometimes, it's like Graham says; it's just a matter of practice. Other times it's that we just don't have the same background or aptitude for navigating emotions; we didn't have that same ability to conform. I mean, usually it's a combination of those things; conforming in the way the other students do is harder than it is for most people, so you rebel from them the way you rebel against your parents, only your peers don't have the depth of understanding, the patience, and the duty of care your parents have. And it was more brutal than Graham makes it out to be, because as a teen, it feels like that is just how the world is. For me, my escape was that I got an IT job in high school... it was like heaven. For two hours a day after school, I was treated like a human being with valuable skills, and people put up with my minor social transgressions because they expected a little bit of acting out from a kid. Really, I think that's most of the difference between a 'nerd' and a regular troubled child; the nerd has an outlet, a haven, and a future. A nerd can withdraw into books rather than just snowballing the behavioral problems. (though, to other students, reading books is seen as a behavioral problem. Still, at least in my school career, if you just wanted to read during recess hours, there was almost always a friendly teacher who would let you eat lunch and read in their class, if you were quiet.) But, my point, I guess, is just that there are plenty of American children who are smart and study and do sports and are popular.... people like what TangoTrotFox describes further up this thread. People who are socially skilled enough that they know, for example, that you don't read in front of other people. Those people aren't properly 'nerds' - they're just smart. Most of us would have been those people if we could have... but we lacked the social aptitude. But I'm still not being terribly specific. I guess a lot of that is that it's embarrassing and painful... but I think my peers would have described me as mean and arrogant. [1]http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html