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I don't have kids and I don't know anybody who has kids on ADHD medication, so I'm ignorant about this, but I have a hard time believing that people put their k

I don't have kids and I don't know anybody who has kids on ADHD medication, so I'm ignorant about this, but I have a hard time believing that people put their kids on stimulants without knowing what these drugs are and what they do; especially when it's possible to look up the Wikipedia article on Adderall and see that it's nothing but amphetamine. I'd be further surprised if none of these parents were interested enough to try out their kids' prescriptions on themselves; I would be. It's awfully cynical, but I think that a lot of parents have a good idea what they're giving to their kids and do it anyway because they think the stimulants will give them a competitive edge in school, college admissions, and ultimately lead to higher incomes. The cost of not drugging your kid might be that they don't fit in, are singled out for punishment by school staff, and end up handicapped by their negative experiences in school. It's a very tough decision, even if you know what's in those pills. I just wish the dosages were lower. Having tried a few of my friends' prescriptions over the years, I've found that even "low" doses get me high and then leave me with a hangover. I might be particularly sensitive (I get euphoric from taking 30mg of pseudoephedrine), but I'm a 180-pound adult. I can't imagine what an 18mg dose of methylphenidate does to a prepubescent boy. At worst, the 'high' from taking these drugs therapeutically should be subliminal.

OutThisLife 9y ago
You have an interesting perspective but I think you're overestimating the average American parent. I'm around kids and their parents a lot, most don't do their due diligence - they just trust the authority figure of a doctor.
- watwut 9y ago
  The again, when they don't trust the doctor, they are called stupid and all kind of things.
limeblack 9y ago
My cousin on ADHD meds lives with his grandparents. They don't have email addresses and only own an iPhone after much convincing.
rdtsc 9y ago
It was described to be like this by a mother who went through this: she watched her child struggle with homework, not being able to focus, getting bad grades, falling behind in reading and math. One of doctors suggested this "pill". She gave it to her son, and then that same night she watched him sit down and do homework like she's never seen him before. In that respect it was an easy decision. That was in the late-80s or early 90s. Her son became pretty successful and is doing quite well. She credits that success in part to the decision to give him those pills. It was not about a competitive edge, acing the SAT or going into Harvard, for them back then it was about not failing behind and ended up in remedial classes.
- goldenkey 9y ago
  A lot of times these kids are just slow...low IQ. Amphetamines increase IQ and general mental and physical performance temporarily. So the benefit is there but these parents should probably accept their childs aptitude rather than trying to augment it through hard stimulant drugs..
jamra 9y ago
Stimulants don’t have the same effect on kids that they do in adults. They may even be downers. Well, that’s what my Uncle the doctor told me
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  Are you sure he wasn't comparing "people with ADHD to people without" as opposed to "kids vs adults?"
  - jamra 9y ago
    I am comparing kids vs adults, not people with ADD and without. Kids can react differently than adults. The source of that was my Uncle, which was confirmed by my children’s pediatrician. I don’t know the literature on it, though. It doesn’t seem like good advice to try it on yourself to check if it’s good enough for a child. That was the point I was trying to make
    - boomboomsubban 9y ago
      Though I agree trying it yourself provides little useful information, your broader statement is still confusing. An individuals reaction to stimulants varies based on a large number of factors. Though age may be one of the factors, it is not a large enough one to say "children react differently than adults." If they did react differently, stimulants being common for both children and adults with ADHD wouldn't make sense. I mean no disrespect here, but might you have misremembered things doctors said about "your children" and changed it to all children? As people with ADHD do generally react differently to stimulants, with drowsiness being a common side effect.
      - jamra 9y ago
        As I stated, some children react differently. An example is with Benadryl. Some children get a lot of energy and have an opposite effect. With stimulants, I'm not sure if it's some or all children, however, my point was to apply a bit of skepticism towards trying medicine out on yourself as a filter for its efficacy on your child. Edit: Here is a link for an example. It may actually be stating that stimulants in children do not have a paradoxical effect. I'm too uninterested to research this, but would be interested in a professional's opinion. http://adhd.emedtv.com/adhd/adhd-myth-the-paradoxical-stimulant-effect.html http://adhd.emedtv.com/adhd/adhd-myth-the-paradoxical-stimul...
oldcynic 9y ago
> I just wish the dosages were lower Two things. First, the first 1-2 days of ADHD meds can have a dramatic effect that have you thinking "this can't be right". It's normal, expected, and goes away very quickly. You should be warned to expect it by the prescribing doctor. After 3 days or so you barely know you're taking them. Second, the dosage and effect on a non-ADHD person is entirely different to that an ADHD person will get. That's presuming it's the right med for them[0]. You will have a stimulating, speed, effect. An ADHD person (well most) will get little to no stimulation, and a calming effect, and might sit down to do their homework, or even just sit still for a couple of hours - for the first time ever. Amphetamines don't do that to normal neurology, thus you can't compare. The dosage is putting them closer to typical, but putting you far away from typical. If you were normal vision or long sighted and tried your friend's short sight prescription glasses you wouldn't wish their glasses were weaker, would you? Same principle. It's also common for one or other parent to discover they have it too after they have tried their child's meds. [0] Getting the right medication is a bit of a trial and error minefield, but should be a standard part of treatment. Not all doctors are as willing to switch medication or titrate dosage as they should be.
- EggsOnToast 9y ago
  This is a pretty solid description of the situation. I take adderall at the moment and I've been on adhd meds since a little before highschool. College was funny when I went to parties because I'd see people taking stimulants (prescription and otherwise) for fun and all I could think was "Why would anyone want to party on this stuff?"
  - oldcynic 9y ago
    It's funny, the doctor brought that up after my diagnosis. If you've tried stimulants recreationally and they just didn't work, or if you just wanted to sit and chill, he saw that as a very strong indicator.
    - empath75 9y ago
      That’s so ridiculous. As someone who spent a lot of time in the rave scene— people respond to different dosages and settings in wildly different ways. Just because you did meth and wanted to chill and talk for a bit instead of go out dancing, that doesn’t mean you have adhd. You give ‘anybody’ speed and they’ll go on an apartment cleaning spree or just do homework on the right day, with the right dose.
stagbeetle 9y ago
I have ADHD and take mixed amphetamine salts so I'm not homeless. 18mg of methylphenidate is on the lower end of "middle" in terms of dosage. I can relate to the "drugged" feeling and euphoria and that's a common complaint (that they feel like they're wired or that the euphoria is gone after the first week!) within ADHD communities. However, it doesn't last after the "break-in period," where the side effects dwindle and so does the euphoria. All you're left with is focus in pill form. It also should be noted that amphetamines et al. affect neurotypicals (relatively) differently than those with dopamine/norepinepherine disorders. While neurotypicals commonly (from first and second-hand accounts) note that they feel high, those with ADHD feel like they're "normal." If that's too broad and indescriptive, then I point to the account of a small subset of people who only found out they had ADHD from experimenting with stimulants. They find their life no longer becomes a Sisyphean task and they can function like a normal person. Whereas neurotypicals might start picking at their skin or masturbating for hours, those with ADHD will finally clean their rooms or make that phone call they've been meaning to make for the past 2 years. As to your belief of the "well-meaning parent," I have to disagree. I have been around poor families, stable families, and rich families, but most parents don't have the first clue of what ADHD really is, even less what an "amphetamine" is. Or even how to use thoughtfully use Wikipedia and the internet to answer their questions, instead of differing their thinking to, seeming, authorities. It's akin to asking the box-spring salesman if your bed needs a box-spring. The box-spring salesman will tell you all of the benefits in easily digestible, and deftly crafted, sound-bites. And then you will accept his proclamations and move on with your life, believing he knows best. The same is done by the majority of people who are in contact with drugs and supplements. Even more so, parents who are too busy/exhausted/inflexible by virtue of the mental capacity degradation that comes with years of not having to use much thought to get by, i.e the bulk of parents. Most people do not do cost-benefit analysis, but a subset of "involved" parents will allow their children to be medicated (whether rightfully or wrongfully) to let them get a step-up over their peers. To this I agree, but I don't believe it's as common as your argument makes it out to be. To the statement after about "the cost of not drugging," I agree, but like with last statement, it's not common among parents. To the rest, I have to say, in my opinion, your statements reek of neurotypicalness. Atleast, not of someone that has a disability that separates them from other people. This is not an insult, but an elucidation on the disconnect between yourself and other people's mindsets. People are very common and predictable, but if you're among them you likely won't see how. One of these similarities is that they believe everyone thinks like them. For you, it might be a more rational approach. For someone else, it might be a more feelings-oriented approach, that mimics rationality by appealing to the homeostasis of one's emotional state. It's hard to tell where someone is going when you're all moving in the same direction. Now move yourself to outside the crowd. You can see all the little peculiarities of everyone's movement. Like a school of fish, they're all synchronized, but those peculiarities set them apart. With major disabilities, you're forced outside that school of fish, and destined to stare at everyone, instead of moving with them. Overtime, all the different combinations of moves have been played out. All the idiosyncrasies have been enumerated, and there is nothing left to deduce, but that most people are too wrapped up in going forward that they never step back and take a breather. To unplug from the global consciousness and just watch the synapses of other people fire. To peer take a look at someone similar so you can recognize your own shortcomings.
liveoneggs 9y ago
it starts like this: the teacher says "Billy is having a lot of trouble sitting still and paying attention. I think he might have ADHD. A lot of the other boys do and they've really improved since they started taking medicine for it." Now since the teacher got compliance from other parents your kid is not given much slack. A solution has been presented and you choose to take it or not. "Billy is still fidgeting in his chair all morning and lunch time is pushed back to 1:30pm this year because of staffing issues." "Billy is struggling with math. We do it every day at 12 and I think he's just worn out from fidgeting in his seat all morning. And you know on wednesday he started acting out and being loud." "I really think Billy has potential to do better. I hope you'll reconsider having him seen by someone to address his hyperactivity."

OutThisLife 9y ago

You have an interesting perspective but I think you're overestimating the average American parent. I'm around kids and their parents a lot, most don't do their due diligence - they just trust the authority figure of a doctor.

watwut 9y ago
The again, when they don't trust the doctor, they are called stupid and all kind of things.

limeblack 9y ago

My cousin on ADHD meds lives with his grandparents. They don't have email addresses and only own an iPhone after much convincing.

rdtsc 9y ago

It was described to be like this by a mother who went through this: she watched her child struggle with homework, not being able to focus, getting bad grades, falling behind in reading and math. One of doctors suggested this "pill". She gave it to her son, and then that same night she watched him sit down and do homework like she's never seen him before. In that respect it was an easy decision. That was in the late-80s or early 90s. Her son became pretty successful and is doing quite well. She credits that success in part to the decision to give him those pills. It was not about a competitive edge, acing the SAT or going into Harvard, for them back then it was about not failing behind and ended up in remedial classes.

goldenkey 9y ago
A lot of times these kids are just slow...low IQ. Amphetamines increase IQ and general mental and physical performance temporarily. So the benefit is there but these parents should probably accept their childs aptitude rather than trying to augment it through hard stimulant drugs..

jamra 9y ago

Stimulants don’t have the same effect on kids that they do in adults. They may even be downers. Well, that’s what my Uncle the doctor told me

boomboomsubban 9y ago
Are you sure he wasn't comparing "people with ADHD to people without" as opposed to "kids vs adults?"
- jamra 9y ago
  I am comparing kids vs adults, not people with ADD and without. Kids can react differently than adults. The source of that was my Uncle, which was confirmed by my children’s pediatrician. I don’t know the literature on it, though. It doesn’t seem like good advice to try it on yourself to check if it’s good enough for a child. That was the point I was trying to make
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    Though I agree trying it yourself provides little useful information, your broader statement is still confusing. An individuals reaction to stimulants varies based on a large number of factors. Though age may be one of the factors, it is not a large enough one to say "children react differently than adults." If they did react differently, stimulants being common for both children and adults with ADHD wouldn't make sense. I mean no disrespect here, but might you have misremembered things doctors said about "your children" and changed it to all children? As people with ADHD do generally react differently to stimulants, with drowsiness being a common side effect.
    - jamra 9y ago
      As I stated, some children react differently. An example is with Benadryl. Some children get a lot of energy and have an opposite effect. With stimulants, I'm not sure if it's some or all children, however, my point was to apply a bit of skepticism towards trying medicine out on yourself as a filter for its efficacy on your child. Edit: Here is a link for an example. It may actually be stating that stimulants in children do not have a paradoxical effect. I'm too uninterested to research this, but would be interested in a professional's opinion. http://adhd.emedtv.com/adhd/adhd-myth-the-paradoxical-stimulant-effect.html http://adhd.emedtv.com/adhd/adhd-myth-the-paradoxical-stimul...

oldcynic 9y ago

> I just wish the dosages were lower Two things. First, the first 1-2 days of ADHD meds can have a dramatic effect that have you thinking "this can't be right". It's normal, expected, and goes away very quickly. You should be warned to expect it by the prescribing doctor. After 3 days or so you barely know you're taking them. Second, the dosage and effect on a non-ADHD person is entirely different to that an ADHD person will get. That's presuming it's the right med for them[0]. You will have a stimulating, speed, effect. An ADHD person (well most) will get little to no stimulation, and a calming effect, and might sit down to do their homework, or even just sit still for a couple of hours - for the first time ever. Amphetamines don't do that to normal neurology, thus you can't compare. The dosage is putting them closer to typical, but putting you far away from typical. If you were normal vision or long sighted and tried your friend's short sight prescription glasses you wouldn't wish their glasses were weaker, would you? Same principle. It's also common for one or other parent to discover they have it too after they have tried their child's meds. [0] Getting the right medication is a bit of a trial and error minefield, but should be a standard part of treatment. Not all doctors are as willing to switch medication or titrate dosage as they should be.

EggsOnToast 9y ago
This is a pretty solid description of the situation. I take adderall at the moment and I've been on adhd meds since a little before highschool. College was funny when I went to parties because I'd see people taking stimulants (prescription and otherwise) for fun and all I could think was "Why would anyone want to party on this stuff?"
- oldcynic 9y ago
  It's funny, the doctor brought that up after my diagnosis. If you've tried stimulants recreationally and they just didn't work, or if you just wanted to sit and chill, he saw that as a very strong indicator.
  - empath75 9y ago
    That’s so ridiculous. As someone who spent a lot of time in the rave scene— people respond to different dosages and settings in wildly different ways. Just because you did meth and wanted to chill and talk for a bit instead of go out dancing, that doesn’t mean you have adhd. You give ‘anybody’ speed and they’ll go on an apartment cleaning spree or just do homework on the right day, with the right dose.

stagbeetle 9y ago

I have ADHD and take mixed amphetamine salts so I'm not homeless. 18mg of methylphenidate is on the lower end of "middle" in terms of dosage. I can relate to the "drugged" feeling and euphoria and that's a common complaint (that they feel like they're wired or that the euphoria is gone after the first week!) within ADHD communities. However, it doesn't last after the "break-in period," where the side effects dwindle and so does the euphoria. All you're left with is focus in pill form. It also should be noted that amphetamines et al. affect neurotypicals (relatively) differently than those with dopamine/norepinepherine disorders. While neurotypicals commonly (from first and second-hand accounts) note that they feel high, those with ADHD feel like they're "normal." If that's too broad and indescriptive, then I point to the account of a small subset of people who only found out they had ADHD from experimenting with stimulants. They find their life no longer becomes a Sisyphean task and they can function like a normal person. Whereas neurotypicals might start picking at their skin or masturbating for hours, those with ADHD will finally clean their rooms or make that phone call they've been meaning to make for the past 2 years. As to your belief of the "well-meaning parent," I have to disagree. I have been around poor families, stable families, and rich families, but most parents don't have the first clue of what ADHD really is, even less what an "amphetamine" is. Or even how to use thoughtfully use Wikipedia and the internet to answer their questions, instead of differing their thinking to, seeming, authorities. It's akin to asking the box-spring salesman if your bed needs a box-spring. The box-spring salesman will tell you all of the benefits in easily digestible, and deftly crafted, sound-bites. And then you will accept his proclamations and move on with your life, believing he knows best. The same is done by the majority of people who are in contact with drugs and supplements. Even more so, parents who are too busy/exhausted/inflexible by virtue of the mental capacity degradation that comes with years of not having to use much thought to get by, i.e the bulk of parents. Most people do not do cost-benefit analysis, but a subset of "involved" parents will allow their children to be medicated (whether rightfully or wrongfully) to let them get a step-up over their peers. To this I agree, but I don't believe it's as common as your argument makes it out to be. To the statement after about "the cost of not drugging," I agree, but like with last statement, it's not common among parents. To the rest, I have to say, in my opinion, your statements reek of neurotypicalness. Atleast, not of someone that has a disability that separates them from other people. This is not an insult, but an elucidation on the disconnect between yourself and other people's mindsets. People are very common and predictable, but if you're among them you likely won't see how. One of these similarities is that they believe everyone thinks like them. For you, it might be a more rational approach. For someone else, it might be a more feelings-oriented approach, that mimics rationality by appealing to the homeostasis of one's emotional state. It's hard to tell where someone is going when you're all moving in the same direction. Now move yourself to outside the crowd. You can see all the little peculiarities of everyone's movement. Like a school of fish, they're all synchronized, but those peculiarities set them apart. With major disabilities, you're forced outside that school of fish, and destined to stare at everyone, instead of moving with them. Overtime, all the different combinations of moves have been played out. All the idiosyncrasies have been enumerated, and there is nothing left to deduce, but that most people are too wrapped up in going forward that they never step back and take a breather. To unplug from the global consciousness and just watch the synapses of other people fire. To peer take a look at someone similar so you can recognize your own shortcomings.

liveoneggs 9y ago

it starts like this: the teacher says "Billy is having a lot of trouble sitting still and paying attention. I think he might have ADHD. A lot of the other boys do and they've really improved since they started taking medicine for it." Now since the teacher got compliance from other parents your kid is not given much slack. A solution has been presented and you choose to take it or not. "Billy is still fidgeting in his chair all morning and lunch time is pushed back to 1:30pm this year because of staffing issues." "Billy is struggling with math. We do it every day at 12 and I think he's just worn out from fidgeting in his seat all morning. And you know on wednesday he started acting out and being loud." "I really think Billy has potential to do better. I hope you'll reconsider having him seen by someone to address his hyperactivity."