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One might consider that the average drivers wage is highly depressed by a large number of people who are inexperienced or not very serious or not very smart at

One might consider that the average drivers wage is highly depressed by a large number of people who are inexperienced or not very serious or not very smart at making money driving. I have a cousin who drives as his primary employment. If you have been driving for awhile, have an aptitude of understanding how to maximize your benefit in complex systems, and have a flexibility on when you work, one can do quite well. Knowing when and where surge is likely to happen. Knowing how to up your odds of getting a nice long trip on a freeway at your max Lux level when the traffic is clear. Having the skills and interest in buying used cars so you can get a good deal on the cheapest car that passes for UberXL or UberSelect. When and where to set your two daily destination options. Keeping up with all the bonus plans and other rules of all the ride sharing platforms in your area. Chatting up other skilled drivers to try to learn more tricks on upping your income. It does not seem like such a bad idea for society to have some entrepreneurial like jobs that are easy to get but don't pay very well until one becomes good at it.

FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>It does not seem like such a bad idea for society to have some entrepreneurial like jobs that are easy to get but don't pay very well until one becomes good at it. Until it gets abused by employers as a cheap source of labor and then sold to the public as "adding jobs". Those entrepreneurial jobs exist already as door to door salesmen and MLM people. If you can be this smart about Uber driving, you can be this smart about getting a decent salary job, so this doesn't make sense rationally because Uber ultimately has a low earnings ceiling for drivers.
- njarboe 9y ago
  People being able to get transportation at times, places, or prices that were not available before seems like a positive endeavor. People bugging you at your door selling you things that you never would want and MLMs, not so much.
hinkley 9y ago
You seem to be equating gaming the system with making the system fair to the driver. The problem is that now not only is Uber taking advantage of your coworkers, but you’re indirectly taking advantage of them as well. Because you’re now exploiting the same thing Uber is. This doesn’t fix the system. In fact it probably makes it worse. Take your advice to the end: nodody should drive unless there’s a surplus of fares. That would cause much of the day to qualify as surge. The premium Uber pays for surge would drop substantially in order to protect their margins. Which means your earning potential would decrease. Now the first quartile of employees are barely making more than the third quartile. That sucks for everybody.
brudgers 9y ago
Driving for Uber is not entrepreneurial. One common feature of entrepreneurship is making money while sleeping. Even ignoring that, entrepreneurship requires a freedom to develop the business and take economic advantage of extraordinary market opportunities should they arise. An Uber driver cannot take advantage of a demand spike by raising prices or reducing less profitable service at will. An Uber driver is limited by Uber's dispatch algorithm at a compensation solely at Uber's discretion. While a driver can potentially increase the hourly rate at which they work, they can do so only by choosing not to work at certain times. Unlike an entrepreneur, an Uber driver cannot increase their compensation rate by working to develop customers; expand business lines, and importantly by hiring staff. To put it another way, an entrepreneur would have the potential of increasing their profits with the availability of self-driving cars while self driving cars are potential competition for Uber drivers and likely to produce wage suppression. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the large number of people described as depressing wages in the first sentence of your comment is the large number of people driving for Uber.
- malvosenior 9y ago
  I won't even comment on if an uber driver is an entrepreneur, but this is wrong: > One common feature of entrepreneurship is making money while sleeping. Do you not consider mom and pop shops entrepreneurs? Local business that close at 5pm-6pm. I'm also not sure small business would usually qualify for this: > entrepreneurship requires a freedom to develop the business and take economic advantage of extraordinary market opportunities should they arise
  - brudgers 9y ago
    Walmart is an example of successful entrepreneurship starting with a mom and pop shop. Sam Walton made money because he had the freedom to hire other people and scale the business beyond his waking hours. An Uber driver can't. Don't get me wrong, every mom and pop shop isn't run by successful entrepreneurs. But when the local team is doing well, they have the freedom to dedicate shelf space to big foam fingers in the appropriate color and up the price to whatever the traffic will bear. An Uber driver can't set prices when the Super Bowl comes to town.
Broken_Hippo 9y ago
"It does not seem like such a bad idea for society to have some entrepreneurial like jobs that are easy to get but don't pay very well until one becomes good at it." Because no one ever needs to eat or pay the rent while they are learning their new job? Sure, pay folks less while learning. That's fine. At least minimum wage, though - that's what minimum wage is there for. Then give them a raise. If employees have to "game the system" to earn minimum wage, what's the point? Besides, such companies do need folks during off hours, just like restaurants need wait staff during non-peak dining hours. Might as well act like it.

FLUX-YOU 9y ago

>It does not seem like such a bad idea for society to have some entrepreneurial like jobs that are easy to get but don't pay very well until one becomes good at it. Until it gets abused by employers as a cheap source of labor and then sold to the public as "adding jobs". Those entrepreneurial jobs exist already as door to door salesmen and MLM people. If you can be this smart about Uber driving, you can be this smart about getting a decent salary job, so this doesn't make sense rationally because Uber ultimately has a low earnings ceiling for drivers.

njarboe 9y ago
People being able to get transportation at times, places, or prices that were not available before seems like a positive endeavor. People bugging you at your door selling you things that you never would want and MLMs, not so much.

hinkley 9y ago

You seem to be equating gaming the system with making the system fair to the driver. The problem is that now not only is Uber taking advantage of your coworkers, but you’re indirectly taking advantage of them as well. Because you’re now exploiting the same thing Uber is. This doesn’t fix the system. In fact it probably makes it worse. Take your advice to the end: nodody should drive unless there’s a surplus of fares. That would cause much of the day to qualify as surge. The premium Uber pays for surge would drop substantially in order to protect their margins. Which means your earning potential would decrease. Now the first quartile of employees are barely making more than the third quartile. That sucks for everybody.

brudgers 9y ago

Driving for Uber is not entrepreneurial. One common feature of entrepreneurship is making money while sleeping. Even ignoring that, entrepreneurship requires a freedom to develop the business and take economic advantage of extraordinary market opportunities should they arise. An Uber driver cannot take advantage of a demand spike by raising prices or reducing less profitable service at will. An Uber driver is limited by Uber's dispatch algorithm at a compensation solely at Uber's discretion. While a driver can potentially increase the hourly rate at which they work, they can do so only by choosing not to work at certain times. Unlike an entrepreneur, an Uber driver cannot increase their compensation rate by working to develop customers; expand business lines, and importantly by hiring staff. To put it another way, an entrepreneur would have the potential of increasing their profits with the availability of self-driving cars while self driving cars are potential competition for Uber drivers and likely to produce wage suppression. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the large number of people described as depressing wages in the first sentence of your comment is the large number of people driving for Uber.

malvosenior 9y ago
I won't even comment on if an uber driver is an entrepreneur, but this is wrong: > One common feature of entrepreneurship is making money while sleeping. Do you not consider mom and pop shops entrepreneurs? Local business that close at 5pm-6pm. I'm also not sure small business would usually qualify for this: > entrepreneurship requires a freedom to develop the business and take economic advantage of extraordinary market opportunities should they arise
- brudgers 9y ago
  Walmart is an example of successful entrepreneurship starting with a mom and pop shop. Sam Walton made money because he had the freedom to hire other people and scale the business beyond his waking hours. An Uber driver can't. Don't get me wrong, every mom and pop shop isn't run by successful entrepreneurs. But when the local team is doing well, they have the freedom to dedicate shelf space to big foam fingers in the appropriate color and up the price to whatever the traffic will bear. An Uber driver can't set prices when the Super Bowl comes to town.

Broken_Hippo 9y ago

"It does not seem like such a bad idea for society to have some entrepreneurial like jobs that are easy to get but don't pay very well until one becomes good at it." Because no one ever needs to eat or pay the rent while they are learning their new job? Sure, pay folks less while learning. That's fine. At least minimum wage, though - that's what minimum wage is there for. Then give them a raise. If employees have to "game the system" to earn minimum wage, what's the point? Besides, such companies do need folks during off hours, just like restaurants need wait staff during non-peak dining hours. Might as well act like it.