6 ms·

Roger Bannister has died

106 points by stevekemp 9y ago

mar225 9y ago
Amazingly he basically trained on his lunch hour while studying to be a physician when preparing to run the sub 4 mile. And then went on to be a distinguished medical researcher. He had such a positive influence on running and medicine. If there ever was an athlete that deserved the moniker role model it was him.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Sometimes I wonder how much genetics can explain things like this. Obviously, lettuce has never run a 4 minute mile, but how big is the variance in factors enabling ostensibly normally developed humans to perform impressive feats like this?
  - griffinkelly 9y ago
    Read Sports Gene by David Epstein. He discusses a lot of the genetics vs. developing one's body specifically for a sport, with a large focus on distance running.
    - oh_sigh 9y ago
      Thank you, I appreciate this, I will check it out.
  - 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
    From what I've skimmed genes and gene expression seem to play a huge role (e.g. [1] [2]), but it shows the signs of being a multidimensional space where researchers are far from finished even figuring out what the dimensions actually are. Some of the popular press has mutated this into the notion of generic "exercise super-responders" and "exercise non-responders", but as usual they seem to be dumbing it down to the point of saying something almost the opposite of what the research actually supports. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886694/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886694/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682667/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682667/
adenadel 9y ago
There is an excellent book called the Perfect Mile about Roger Bannister (and two contemporary rivals) racing to be the first to be sub-4 minutes. I haven't read Bannister's own memoir, The Four-Minute Mile, but I've heard it is fantastic as well.
dblock 9y ago
Running is amazing. I find it as addictive as programming, but much healthier. I encourage anyone sitting behind a computer a lot to pick it up. Your inner geek can also publish your Strava runs to a Jekyll blog (shameless plug: http://code.dblock.org/2018/02/17/auto-publishing-strava-runs-to-github-pages.html http://code.dblock.org/2018/02/17/auto-publishing-strava-run...) :)
- oldcynic 9y ago
  Using someone's death to make a cheap plug, how tacky.
  - gist 9y ago
    Tacky? It's either information of value or it's not. Who cares what it's juxtaposed to. I don't. And what does the occasion matter? To me not in bad taste a all. The man lived to a ripe old age. Not like the OP is trying to profit selling tshirts on HN. For that matter I don't even find it necessary to say things like 'shameless plug' or 'I am not connected'. Just post the link what do I care if someone gains or not in some personal way.
    - serf 9y ago
      >Tacky? It's either information of value or it's not. The world isn't black and white. It can be information and be tacky. This is a less offensive case, given that the person had a long life and died under fairly positive circumstances; but what if someone used a public shooting to spin sales into their gun safe company? What if a company that engraved tombstones hung around sites of mass tragedies offering free catalogs to the bereaved? At what point does trying to spin someones personal tragedy into your own gain or profit turn tacky? To me : instantly. To others : it varies. Personally I very much DO want to know if a person giving me advice stands to gain from it. You can use that information to filter out perceived biases and make better decisions oneself.
- philipwhiuk 9y ago
  But why?
Bitcoin_McPonzi 9y ago
If "sex" is a social construct, and women can do everything men can do, and there are no differences between the sexes, how come women have yet to break the 4' barrier? It's at 4:13 now. Is it because of oppression?
- sctb 9y ago
  We've asked you before to please stop trolling, so we've banned the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
beautifulfreak 9y ago
He narrates this video of the race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEyaP4WaJjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEyaP4WaJjA
- helloworld 9y ago
  The narration is excerpted from Bannister's 1955 book, "The First Four Minutes": https://books.google.com/books?id=ka0TDQAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=roger%20bannister%20first%20four%20minutes&pg=PT123#v=onepage&q&f=true https://books.google.com/books?id=ka0TDQAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=ro...
IntronExon 9y ago
He was a really humble man, chalking up his feat to luck of all things. He was probably one of the last Great amateur athletes too. Most of all he was a quite an accomplished neurologist, who had this to say about his struggles with Parkinson’s Disease: ”There's a gentle irony to it. I have seen and looked after patients with so many neurological and other disorders that's why I am not surprised I have acquired an illness. "It's in the nature of things. I am being well looked after and I don't intend to let it interfere - as much as I can."
thewizardofaus 9y ago
Franz stampfl was the genius behind the training of Bannister that led to the four minute mile. I have plenty of stories about stampfl. He became a quadriplegic in the 80's and still continued to coach for 10+ years after.
griffinkelly 9y ago
He was a personal hero of mine. Its a hell of an accomplishment to break four, and even more impressive that he did it on cinders. Interestingly, he never won an olympic medal and pretty much hung it up soon after breaking four. Its funny back in the day, there were rumors that a person would die if they ran that fast, but this is also the same time when smoking cigarettes was a training method.
mdevere 9y ago
great guy
runamok 9y ago
What always stands out to me about Sir Roger Bannister is that once he broke 4, then others could too. It reminds me how many of our limits are mental and if you think you can't you definitely can't. But if you think you can, just maybe you will... I love reading about the 4 minute mile. So many phenomenal athletes mentioned in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile
- bitL 9y ago
  Maybe they should start selling "tainted" sport watches that shrink/expand 1 second for each run; that way one can think they trained for a worse time than they actually did. Though we might be already much closer to the limits of human body/technique than back in the day...
- martinpw 9y ago
  > What always stands out to me about Sir Roger Bannister is that once he broke 4, then others could too. > It reminds me how many of our limits are mental and if you think you can't you definitely can't. But if you think you can, just maybe you will... There is an article here debunking the idea that breaking the 4 minute barrier had any psychological effect on other runners: http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2017/05/the-roger-bannister-effect-the-myth-of-the-psychological-breakthrough.html http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2017/05/the-roger-bannister-... TLDR - the mile record times at that period closely track the 1500m times, which had no similar 'psychological' barrier. Also the impact of WW2 had slowed down record breaking leading up to that time.
  - runamok 9y ago
    Well thats kills the romance a bit but always welcome learning something new here. :-)
  - truantbuick 9y ago
    That article tries to debunk a slightly different notion than I had in mind. It's not that I imagined everybody was sitting just above 4 minutes when running the mile, and that the significance of those round numbers psyched everybody out until Bannister finally broke through. Instead, it's about knowing what's possible and attainable. It's akin to the story of George Dantzig, who solved two unsolved problems in statistical theory because he believed them to be mundane homework problems. Put it this way: how can something that had never been done before 1954 is now considering a very basic benchmark? I would argue that it's precisely because it is considered a basic benchmark that it is so common. If you know something can be done, that makes it easier to train to. If you know something is commonly done, then all the more. Of course, that goes for any record/benchmark, but Bannister's 4 minute mile seems like a particularly significant one.
js2 9y ago
If you’ve never seen a 4 minute mile in person... it is a staggering feat and amazing to see up close. Here in Raleigh, NC there is a once a year commmunity event where a handful of elite runners are invited to run a 4 minute mile. The women are invited to run under 4:30. For the 4 weeks leading up to the event, there are “pop-ups” around town where us mere mortals get to run. The best runners are invited to run with the elites on the big night. It’s a free event with a few hundred in attendance and we get to stand on the track, leaving just the 4 inside lanes clear. These guys (and the women in their race) are practically flying. Anyway, the mile isn’t run all that often as an event any more, but maybe there’s a similar event in your area if you look for it.
- Humdeee 9y ago
  It really is amazing. Even the dedication, training, and talent to go from a 4:10 to a flat 4:00 is mind blowing. Watching the rare times a pro will take it to sub 3:50 is nuts. Many good athletes in most HS sports can usually run anywhere from 13-14s for the 100m. That's keeping pace.
- gnufx 9y ago
  I remember the second one at Iffley Road. It took 24 years, on a then-decent track: http://bringbackthemile.com/news/detail/my_first_sub_411 http://bringbackthemile.com/news/detail/my_first_sub_411. If you've run on both cinders and a synthetic track...
paslnyc 9y ago
A Great Man. Rest in Peace.
nl 9y ago
If Bannister interests you and you haven't read Once a Runner go and do it now[1]. I go back and forth on if Once a Runner or Tim Krabbe's The Rider[2] is the best fictional sports novel ever, but today I think is the day for running. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2008/12/speed_reading.html http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2008/12/speed_... [2] https://cyclingtips.com/2010/11/the-rider/ https://cyclingtips.com/2010/11/the-rider/

106 points by stevekemp 9y ago

Amazingly he basically trained on his lunch hour while studying to be a physician when preparing to run the sub 4 mile. And then went on to be a distinguished medical researcher. He had such a positive influence on running and medicine. If there ever was an athlete that deserved the moniker role model it was him.

oh_sigh 9y ago
Sometimes I wonder how much genetics can explain things like this. Obviously, lettuce has never run a 4 minute mile, but how big is the variance in factors enabling ostensibly normally developed humans to perform impressive feats like this?
- griffinkelly 9y ago
  Read Sports Gene by David Epstein. He discusses a lot of the genetics vs. developing one's body specifically for a sport, with a large focus on distance running.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Thank you, I appreciate this, I will check it out.
- 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
  From what I've skimmed genes and gene expression seem to play a huge role (e.g. [1] [2]), but it shows the signs of being a multidimensional space where researchers are far from finished even figuring out what the dimensions actually are. Some of the popular press has mutated this into the notion of generic "exercise super-responders" and "exercise non-responders", but as usual they seem to be dumbing it down to the point of saying something almost the opposite of what the research actually supports. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886694/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886694/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682667/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682667/

adenadel 9y ago

There is an excellent book called the Perfect Mile about Roger Bannister (and two contemporary rivals) racing to be the first to be sub-4 minutes. I haven't read Bannister's own memoir, The Four-Minute Mile, but I've heard it is fantastic as well.

dblock 9y ago

Running is amazing. I find it as addictive as programming, but much healthier. I encourage anyone sitting behind a computer a lot to pick it up. Your inner geek can also publish your Strava runs to a Jekyll blog (shameless plug: http://code.dblock.org/2018/02/17/auto-publishing-strava-runs-to-github-pages.html http://code.dblock.org/2018/02/17/auto-publishing-strava-run...) :)

oldcynic 9y ago
Using someone's death to make a cheap plug, how tacky.
- gist 9y ago
  Tacky? It's either information of value or it's not. Who cares what it's juxtaposed to. I don't. And what does the occasion matter? To me not in bad taste a all. The man lived to a ripe old age. Not like the OP is trying to profit selling tshirts on HN. For that matter I don't even find it necessary to say things like 'shameless plug' or 'I am not connected'. Just post the link what do I care if someone gains or not in some personal way.
  - serf 9y ago
    >Tacky? It's either information of value or it's not. The world isn't black and white. It can be information and be tacky. This is a less offensive case, given that the person had a long life and died under fairly positive circumstances; but what if someone used a public shooting to spin sales into their gun safe company? What if a company that engraved tombstones hung around sites of mass tragedies offering free catalogs to the bereaved? At what point does trying to spin someones personal tragedy into your own gain or profit turn tacky? To me : instantly. To others : it varies. Personally I very much DO want to know if a person giving me advice stands to gain from it. You can use that information to filter out perceived biases and make better decisions oneself.
philipwhiuk 9y ago
But why?

Bitcoin_McPonzi 9y ago

If "sex" is a social construct, and women can do everything men can do, and there are no differences between the sexes, how come women have yet to break the 4' barrier? It's at 4:13 now. Is it because of oppression?

sctb 9y ago
We've asked you before to please stop trolling, so we've banned the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

beautifulfreak 9y ago

He narrates this video of the race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEyaP4WaJjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEyaP4WaJjA

helloworld 9y ago
The narration is excerpted from Bannister's 1955 book, "The First Four Minutes": https://books.google.com/books?id=ka0TDQAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=roger%20bannister%20first%20four%20minutes&pg=PT123#v=onepage&q&f=true https://books.google.com/books?id=ka0TDQAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=ro...

IntronExon 9y ago

He was a really humble man, chalking up his feat to luck of all things. He was probably one of the last Great amateur athletes too. Most of all he was a quite an accomplished neurologist, who had this to say about his struggles with Parkinson’s Disease: ”There's a gentle irony to it. I have seen and looked after patients with so many neurological and other disorders that's why I am not surprised I have acquired an illness. "It's in the nature of things. I am being well looked after and I don't intend to let it interfere - as much as I can."

thewizardofaus 9y ago

Franz stampfl was the genius behind the training of Bannister that led to the four minute mile. I have plenty of stories about stampfl. He became a quadriplegic in the 80's and still continued to coach for 10+ years after.

griffinkelly 9y ago

He was a personal hero of mine. Its a hell of an accomplishment to break four, and even more impressive that he did it on cinders. Interestingly, he never won an olympic medal and pretty much hung it up soon after breaking four. Its funny back in the day, there were rumors that a person would die if they ran that fast, but this is also the same time when smoking cigarettes was a training method.

mdevere 9y ago

great guy

runamok 9y ago

What always stands out to me about Sir Roger Bannister is that once he broke 4, then others could too. It reminds me how many of our limits are mental and if you think you can't you definitely can't. But if you think you can, just maybe you will... I love reading about the 4 minute mile. So many phenomenal athletes mentioned in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_mile

bitL 9y ago
Maybe they should start selling "tainted" sport watches that shrink/expand 1 second for each run; that way one can think they trained for a worse time than they actually did. Though we might be already much closer to the limits of human body/technique than back in the day...
martinpw 9y ago
> What always stands out to me about Sir Roger Bannister is that once he broke 4, then others could too. > It reminds me how many of our limits are mental and if you think you can't you definitely can't. But if you think you can, just maybe you will... There is an article here debunking the idea that breaking the 4 minute barrier had any psychological effect on other runners: http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2017/05/the-roger-bannister-effect-the-myth-of-the-psychological-breakthrough.html http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2017/05/the-roger-bannister-... TLDR - the mile record times at that period closely track the 1500m times, which had no similar 'psychological' barrier. Also the impact of WW2 had slowed down record breaking leading up to that time.
- runamok 9y ago
  Well thats kills the romance a bit but always welcome learning something new here. :-)
- truantbuick 9y ago
  That article tries to debunk a slightly different notion than I had in mind. It's not that I imagined everybody was sitting just above 4 minutes when running the mile, and that the significance of those round numbers psyched everybody out until Bannister finally broke through. Instead, it's about knowing what's possible and attainable. It's akin to the story of George Dantzig, who solved two unsolved problems in statistical theory because he believed them to be mundane homework problems. Put it this way: how can something that had never been done before 1954 is now considering a very basic benchmark? I would argue that it's precisely because it is considered a basic benchmark that it is so common. If you know something can be done, that makes it easier to train to. If you know something is commonly done, then all the more. Of course, that goes for any record/benchmark, but Bannister's 4 minute mile seems like a particularly significant one.

js2 9y ago

If you’ve never seen a 4 minute mile in person... it is a staggering feat and amazing to see up close. Here in Raleigh, NC there is a once a year commmunity event where a handful of elite runners are invited to run a 4 minute mile. The women are invited to run under 4:30. For the 4 weeks leading up to the event, there are “pop-ups” around town where us mere mortals get to run. The best runners are invited to run with the elites on the big night. It’s a free event with a few hundred in attendance and we get to stand on the track, leaving just the 4 inside lanes clear. These guys (and the women in their race) are practically flying. Anyway, the mile isn’t run all that often as an event any more, but maybe there’s a similar event in your area if you look for it.

Humdeee 9y ago
It really is amazing. Even the dedication, training, and talent to go from a 4:10 to a flat 4:00 is mind blowing. Watching the rare times a pro will take it to sub 3:50 is nuts. Many good athletes in most HS sports can usually run anywhere from 13-14s for the 100m. That's keeping pace.
gnufx 9y ago
I remember the second one at Iffley Road. It took 24 years, on a then-decent track: http://bringbackthemile.com/news/detail/my_first_sub_411 http://bringbackthemile.com/news/detail/my_first_sub_411. If you've run on both cinders and a synthetic track...

paslnyc 9y ago

A Great Man. Rest in Peace.

nl 9y ago

If Bannister interests you and you haven't read Once a Runner go and do it now[1]. I go back and forth on if Once a Runner or Tim Krabbe's The Rider[2] is the best fictional sports novel ever, but today I think is the day for running. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2008/12/speed_reading.html http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2008/12/speed_... [2] https://cyclingtips.com/2010/11/the-rider/ https://cyclingtips.com/2010/11/the-rider/