11 ms·

Google is no angel themselves. What they did to Windows Phone is no different than Amazon's behavior. I'd imagine Windows Phone might as well died even if there

by ethana 9y ago

Google is no angel themselves. What they did to Windows Phone is no different than Amazon's behavior. I'd imagine Windows Phone might as well died even if there were Google apps on it. But by actively preventing third-parties from porting their services to WP, Google intentionally tried to kill it. Now they now practically own the global market of smartphones. Not saying any of this is right, but I've less empathy for them.

nahhhhhhh 9y ago
Nahh. I had a WP for 2 years, it was absolutely dreadful software that I kept hoping would improve but never did. Google did not need to do anything to kill it.
pkaye 9y ago
I'm sure Microsoft could have worked out a deal with Google. For example there were some patents for filesystems that Microsoft was enforcing for a while on Android phones.
tyler_larson 9y ago
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
jd20 9y ago
Not to mention when Google blocked YouTube from Echo Show devices. This almost seems like retaliation.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  Or when Google blocked YouTube from Fire TV devices, after which Amazon stopped selling Chromecasts. Or maybe it was the other way around. This is - in other words - not the first time Amazon and Google got in a spat like this, and probably ain't the last.
  - notatoad 9y ago
    that was the other way around. and amazon's rationale for not selling chromecasts was because the chromecast didn't support amazon prime video. which was, of course, a decision that amazon had made.
    - karavelov 9y ago
      I don't think it's Amazon decision to not allow Prime video on the google chromecast devices - it's available of consoles, Roku and other 3rd party devices.
      - vanviegen 9y ago
        Sure it is. Chromecast offers an API everybody can just use, without asking Google for permission.
        kuschku 9y ago
        Nope. Chromecast only offers an API if you already have a license to the Google Play Services, which does require Google’s permission. And this license only allows sending Chromecast streams – it does not allow the FireTV to receive any.
        Buge 9y ago
        I don't understand. karavelov said that Amazon Prime Video doesn't work with Chromecast. Are you saying that https://developers.google.com/cast/ https://developers.google.com/cast/ is insufficient to allow Prime Video to work with Chromecast? karavelov was not asking about FireTV receiving Chromecast. Does Roku receive Chromecast streams? If so, what's stopping FireTV, if not then it's not really relevant to this "targeted discrimination" discussion.
        kuschku 9y ago
        > Are you saying that https://developers.google.com/cast/ https://developers.google.com/cast/ is insufficient to allow Prime Video to work with Chromecast? Correct. That SDK requires proprietary Google Play Services to be present on a device to allow Chromecast to work. As the same Prime Video app has to work on Kindle devices, LineageOS/CopperheadOS/other third party ROMs, and on Google Play Android devices, it can’t require Google Play Services. Regarding Roku: Roku can not receive Chromecast streams, instead Roku, Twitch and several other companies have cooperated to work on a protocol competing with Chromecast, and Roku can receive those (as can a few of Amazon’s devices, and Amazon’s apps can send those streams as well). You can learn more here: https://www.howtogeek.com/214943/how-to-use-your-roku-like-a-chromecast/ https://www.howtogeek.com/214943/how-to-use-your-roku-like-a...
- mooman219 9y ago
  The block was because Echo Show devices don't support various features like ads. Also at the time, the YouTube block could be seen as retaliation for Amazon de-listing ChromeCast.
  - sincerely 9y ago
    "features"
    - oh_sigh 9y ago
      Ads are a feature which allow the various companies involved to provide content for free to the consumer.
      - cloudwalking 9y ago
        This should not be downvoted. YouTube does not have a viable competitor because serving video is incredibly expensive. Edit: This is being downvoted as well. Downvoted is for off-topic or inflammatory comments, not for comments you disagree with. If you disagree, leave a comment and explain why!
        ma2rten 9y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683
        Buge 9y ago
        >Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you want to agree with a downvoted comment, simply say you agree and give some reasons why. Don't mention the downvotes.
        leoedin 9y ago
        Is that true? What about Vimeo, Dailymotion, and the countless streaming sites which pop up to serve pirated content? I don't doubt serving video to an audience as large as YouTube's is very expensive, but then with an audience as large as YouTube's there's a lot of money to be made. Bandwidth cost scales with views. Surely YouTube's advantage is a network effect. They make it easy and quick to upload videos which then have the potential to be viewed millions or billions of times. Plenty of people use Vimeo, but there's not the same potential for virality.
- Buge 9y ago
  Google blocked Echo from viewing Youtube in retaliation for Amazon not listing Chromecast. If Amazon agreed to list Chromecast, all the blocks could be eliminated and the war could end.
pjc50 9y ago
Shady anti-portability tactics against Microsoft is just karma.
notatoad 9y ago
>But by actively preventing third-parties from porting their services to WP [citation needed] The only history i'm aware of with google blocking app development on windows phone is when they sent C&Ds to people developing apps that stripped all the ads off youtube and played background audio. They also consistently take down and block android apps that violate the TOS in this way, and i don't see anybody saying that google is trying to kill android.
- zeusk 9y ago
  Hahaha https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-window-phone-youtube-app https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-win... https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4625502/microsoft-responds-to-google-youtube-windows-phone-block https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4625502/microsoft-respond... Google pulls this same bs with consoles as well, both PS4 and Xbox One (S/X) have a shitty HTML5 app that just doesn't fit well with rest of the system.
  - ChrisAntaki 9y ago
    Really? I've used the ps4 YouTube app a bunch to watch videos, and movies purchased from the play store. My phone can cast to it as well. Seems to work as well as the Netflix app. I've had more issues with the ps4 store app honestly.
  - snuxoll 9y ago
    So does Apple TV now after the most recent update, and it’s absoultely terrible.
- snuxoll 9y ago
  Nobody stripped ads offf YouTube videos - Google doesn’t provide an API you can use to display them in the first place and they had no desire to make a native application themselves to remove the necessity. The background audio stuff, sure - that happened.
- danieldk 9y ago
  Google blocked the web version of Google Maps in Internet Explorer for Windows Phone: https://mashable.com/2013/01/05/google-maps-windows-phone/#gN6bXpMcZEqh https://mashable.com/2013/01/05/google-maps-windows-phone/#g... Maps worked fine with exactly the same Trident engine on the desktop. Moreover, if you change the user agent string, maps also worked fine with Windows Phone.
hota_mazi 9y ago
If you do a Google search for "Alexa" or "dot echo", the first hits will be Amazon's products. As long as this is true, Google is acting a lot more objectively than Amazon and its anti-competitive behavior.
Slansitartop 9y ago
> Google is no angel themselves. What they did to Windows Phone is no different than Amazon's behavior. That's why breakups or heavy regulation needs to seriously considered for these companies. They have too much market power and have shown a proclivity towards abusing it in anti-competitive ways. The market has developed, and I don't think leaving it unregulated is working anymore.

by ethana 9y ago

nahhhhhhh 9y ago

Nahh. I had a WP for 2 years, it was absolutely dreadful software that I kept hoping would improve but never did. Google did not need to do anything to kill it.

pkaye 9y ago

I'm sure Microsoft could have worked out a deal with Google. For example there were some patents for filesystems that Microsoft was enforcing for a while on Android phones.

tyler_larson 9y ago

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

jd20 9y ago

Not to mention when Google blocked YouTube from Echo Show devices. This almost seems like retaliation.

yellowapple 9y ago
Or when Google blocked YouTube from Fire TV devices, after which Amazon stopped selling Chromecasts. Or maybe it was the other way around. This is - in other words - not the first time Amazon and Google got in a spat like this, and probably ain't the last.
- notatoad 9y ago
  that was the other way around. and amazon's rationale for not selling chromecasts was because the chromecast didn't support amazon prime video. which was, of course, a decision that amazon had made.
  - karavelov 9y ago
    I don't think it's Amazon decision to not allow Prime video on the google chromecast devices - it's available of consoles, Roku and other 3rd party devices.
    - vanviegen 9y ago
      Sure it is. Chromecast offers an API everybody can just use, without asking Google for permission.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        Nope. Chromecast only offers an API if you already have a license to the Google Play Services, which does require Google’s permission. And this license only allows sending Chromecast streams – it does not allow the FireTV to receive any.
        Buge 9y ago
        I don't understand. karavelov said that Amazon Prime Video doesn't work with Chromecast. Are you saying that https://developers.google.com/cast/ https://developers.google.com/cast/ is insufficient to allow Prime Video to work with Chromecast? karavelov was not asking about FireTV receiving Chromecast. Does Roku receive Chromecast streams? If so, what's stopping FireTV, if not then it's not really relevant to this "targeted discrimination" discussion.
        kuschku 9y ago
        > Are you saying that https://developers.google.com/cast/ https://developers.google.com/cast/ is insufficient to allow Prime Video to work with Chromecast? Correct. That SDK requires proprietary Google Play Services to be present on a device to allow Chromecast to work. As the same Prime Video app has to work on Kindle devices, LineageOS/CopperheadOS/other third party ROMs, and on Google Play Android devices, it can’t require Google Play Services. Regarding Roku: Roku can not receive Chromecast streams, instead Roku, Twitch and several other companies have cooperated to work on a protocol competing with Chromecast, and Roku can receive those (as can a few of Amazon’s devices, and Amazon’s apps can send those streams as well). You can learn more here: https://www.howtogeek.com/214943/how-to-use-your-roku-like-a-chromecast/ https://www.howtogeek.com/214943/how-to-use-your-roku-like-a...
mooman219 9y ago
The block was because Echo Show devices don't support various features like ads. Also at the time, the YouTube block could be seen as retaliation for Amazon de-listing ChromeCast.
- sincerely 9y ago
  "features"
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Ads are a feature which allow the various companies involved to provide content for free to the consumer.
    - cloudwalking 9y ago
      This should not be downvoted. YouTube does not have a viable competitor because serving video is incredibly expensive. Edit: This is being downvoted as well. Downvoted is for off-topic or inflammatory comments, not for comments you disagree with. If you disagree, leave a comment and explain why!
      - ma2rten 9y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683
      - Buge 9y ago
        >Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you want to agree with a downvoted comment, simply say you agree and give some reasons why. Don't mention the downvotes.
      - leoedin 9y ago
        Is that true? What about Vimeo, Dailymotion, and the countless streaming sites which pop up to serve pirated content? I don't doubt serving video to an audience as large as YouTube's is very expensive, but then with an audience as large as YouTube's there's a lot of money to be made. Bandwidth cost scales with views. Surely YouTube's advantage is a network effect. They make it easy and quick to upload videos which then have the potential to be viewed millions or billions of times. Plenty of people use Vimeo, but there's not the same potential for virality.
Buge 9y ago
Google blocked Echo from viewing Youtube in retaliation for Amazon not listing Chromecast. If Amazon agreed to list Chromecast, all the blocks could be eliminated and the war could end.

pjc50 9y ago

Shady anti-portability tactics against Microsoft is just karma.

notatoad 9y ago

>But by actively preventing third-parties from porting their services to WP [citation needed] The only history i'm aware of with google blocking app development on windows phone is when they sent C&Ds to people developing apps that stripped all the ads off youtube and played background audio. They also consistently take down and block android apps that violate the TOS in this way, and i don't see anybody saying that google is trying to kill android.

zeusk 9y ago
Hahaha https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-window-phone-youtube-app https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-win... https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4625502/microsoft-responds-to-google-youtube-windows-phone-block https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4625502/microsoft-respond... Google pulls this same bs with consoles as well, both PS4 and Xbox One (S/X) have a shitty HTML5 app that just doesn't fit well with rest of the system.
- ChrisAntaki 9y ago
  Really? I've used the ps4 YouTube app a bunch to watch videos, and movies purchased from the play store. My phone can cast to it as well. Seems to work as well as the Netflix app. I've had more issues with the ps4 store app honestly.
- snuxoll 9y ago
  So does Apple TV now after the most recent update, and it’s absoultely terrible.
snuxoll 9y ago
Nobody stripped ads offf YouTube videos - Google doesn’t provide an API you can use to display them in the first place and they had no desire to make a native application themselves to remove the necessity. The background audio stuff, sure - that happened.
danieldk 9y ago
Google blocked the web version of Google Maps in Internet Explorer for Windows Phone: https://mashable.com/2013/01/05/google-maps-windows-phone/#gN6bXpMcZEqh https://mashable.com/2013/01/05/google-maps-windows-phone/#g... Maps worked fine with exactly the same Trident engine on the desktop. Moreover, if you change the user agent string, maps also worked fine with Windows Phone.

hota_mazi 9y ago

If you do a Google search for "Alexa" or "dot echo", the first hits will be Amazon's products. As long as this is true, Google is acting a lot more objectively than Amazon and its anti-competitive behavior.

Slansitartop 9y ago

> Google is no angel themselves. What they did to Windows Phone is no different than Amazon's behavior. That's why breakups or heavy regulation needs to seriously considered for these companies. They have too much market power and have shown a proclivity towards abusing it in anti-competitive ways. The market has developed, and I don't think leaving it unregulated is working anymore.