4 ms·

I think that the main problem with Elm is that Evan wants to design the perfect system. This is of course a laudable goal but I think that clashes with the com

by msangi 9y ago

I think that the main problem with Elm is that Evan wants to design the perfect system. This is of course a laudable goal but I think that clashes with the complexity of the real world. A consequence of this is that if you want to do something Evan spent time designing a solution for you're going to have an awesome experience, he is a great designer, but on the other hand as soon as you try to do something different you're out of luck. This has the nice effect that what's there is really nice but there is no middle ground and you either get something that is well deisigned and extremely polished or nothing at all.

always_good 9y ago
I liken it more to Evan investing "hammock time" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc) into Elm because he has loftier goals than just another SPA abstraction. Which is a bit different than perfection. There are just too many cats that can be released from the bag that would be too hard to reverse once out in the ecosystem. Classic example would be allowing native modules into http://package.elm-lang.org/ http://package.elm-lang.org/. This puts you in a position of treading cautiously with the long-term in mind while your users may clamor for quick fixes that jeopardize the overall strategy. So I agree with you. This results in the "something good vs nothing at all" release cycle that you point out, but I think its a more accurate explanation of why that is. The rest of the issues seem to be related to his limited bandwidth. And I suspect Elm is tied so much to his bandwidth because such fundamental design is still being decided.
galfarragem 9y ago
> I think that the main problem with Elm is that Evan wants to design the perfect system. This. For the good and for the bad Elm's creator seems to be a perfectionist and every perfectionist is a control freak (I'm a recovering one). If you read the Elm newsgroup you'll see that he even controls the website design. By the other hand - if we wait some years - we have a good chance of getting a great language.

by msangi 9y ago

always_good 9y ago

I liken it more to Evan investing "hammock time" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc) into Elm because he has loftier goals than just another SPA abstraction. Which is a bit different than perfection. There are just too many cats that can be released from the bag that would be too hard to reverse once out in the ecosystem. Classic example would be allowing native modules into http://package.elm-lang.org/ http://package.elm-lang.org/. This puts you in a position of treading cautiously with the long-term in mind while your users may clamor for quick fixes that jeopardize the overall strategy. So I agree with you. This results in the "something good vs nothing at all" release cycle that you point out, but I think its a more accurate explanation of why that is. The rest of the issues seem to be related to his limited bandwidth. And I suspect Elm is tied so much to his bandwidth because such fundamental design is still being decided.

galfarragem 9y ago

> I think that the main problem with Elm is that Evan wants to design the perfect system. This. For the good and for the bad Elm's creator seems to be a perfectionist and every perfectionist is a control freak (I'm a recovering one). If you read the Elm newsgroup you'll see that he even controls the website design. By the other hand - if we wait some years - we have a good chance of getting a great language.