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"Vastly increased" is subjective at best and sounds like a bad excuse. I was "Paleo" for years and decided to try mostly plant based recently. As background I s

"Vastly increased" is subjective at best and sounds like a bad excuse. I was "Paleo" for years and decided to try mostly plant based recently. As background I smoked my own bacon and had 1-2 eggs that accompanied it every morning for years. I haven't eaten meat since Jan 1 of this year as an experiment in blood panel results, body fat, and general "feel" of abandoning meats. I was already mostly dairy free (don't consume animal milks with the exception of purchased baked goods or cheeses - a few times a week at worst) for over 7 years. If you haven't tried a shift toward a plant based diet, I would argue you have no clue. Because I didn't. Giving meat up is actually easier than things like cheese as an example. I lost 10lbs of body fat in a month (5'11 @ 175 --> 165) and increased strength in January. I also improved all blood panel markers by a minimum of 15% (WellnessFX). But the best part is the subjective part: overall feel. I feel much better, more consistently and more often on mostly plant based. Things within my pallette have changed quickly. Dr. Greger's "How Not to Die" has helped in some of the education and all the references to studies relating. Cooking, however is a fundamental shift from Paleo so that is one of the hardest parts you have to focus on right away. I had so many recipes I loved and became frustrated early finding alternatives. However after 2 months I'm enjoying cooking with new foods and techniques. I've picked up about a dozen new cookbooks and have learned a lot in short order. Overall, again, I feel your statement is unfounded and I'd suggest for those interested in improving their health to try slow shifts to more plants. There's only upside and there are many studies in support of. The final piece of it is our planet. Animals raised for meat production requires excessive energy and waste. Beyond that most of our meat supply chain is riddled with things such as E Coli (supported in many recent studies - as an example of the many: https://www.asm.org/index.php/mbiosphere/item/6219-connecting-the-food-supply-and-urinary-tract-infections https://www.asm.org/index.php/mbiosphere/item/6219-connectin...). TL:DR Don't miss meat after giving it up. Those who say it adds "value" without actually trying don't have basis to support their claim.

tytytytytytytyt 9y ago
> I lost 10lbs of body fat in a month (5'11 @ 175 --> 165) and increased strength in January. You're telling us all this without mentioning what kind of exercise regiment you're on?
- windexh8er 9y ago
  Nothing has changed so I'm not sure the significance. It's mainly 5-8 miles per week of running, body weight exercises, free weights a few times per week and meditation. This, also, has been replicated in studies.
  - riku_iki 9y ago
    Keto people, who supposedly eat a lot of meat and bacon also claim weight loss with references to studies. So, there may be many parallel roads.
    - windexh8er 9y ago
      I've done rounds of Keto while "Paleo" as well. The difference is in the overall nutrition. Meat, outside of protein, is weak per calorie when compared to complete nutrition. It's also higher, per calorie, with regard to negative health aspects depending on the type and cut of meat.
      - riku_iki 9y ago
        and what is your current source of protein, after you cut of meat?
        windexh8er 9y ago
        The protein argument is probably one of the worst of the food uneducated. I could flip your argument and ask about actual nutrition. What vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc does meat provide? Very few. Protein? Peas, quinoa, beans, nuts, tempeh, leafy greens, seeds, and the list goes on. The difference is something like quinoa is that, compared to any meat, it is calorie for calorie more nutritionally complete. Finally why are you focused on protein to begin with? And how much protein is required for you daily? Overconsumption of has shown negative effects: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045293/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045293/
allthenews 9y ago
>Those who say it adds "value" without actually trying don't have basis to support their claim Please, speak for yourself. Some of us have enough trouble find a variety of food to eat without such restrictions. It is actually insulting to be told that radically changing my diet as an unintentional lifelong picky eater is some trivial exercise. Furthermore it is arrogant to judge value so certainly on behalf of strangers. Put frankly, who are you to tell me what I do and don't like?
- bitcoinboi9 9y ago
  I don't think he told you anything. He wrote something and you read it. There's also mentions of "slow shifts" and similar, indicating that the change of your diet is not radical and sudden, but gradual and slow. Picky eaters have a somewhat disease and should try to incorporate variety. Otherwise you risk black swans by eating practically the same thing all your life. Eating many ingredients is antifragile :D
- windexh8er 9y ago
  There was no basis provided. I didn't judge anyone and have tried many diet changes over the years in my quest to better understand food, nutrition and health. I didn't tell anyone to do anything but made the simple suggestion that plant based has made marked improvements in areas for me and that there are no downsides to increasing plants in diet. Did I ever try to tell you what you should like? Nope. Get a grip.
- SirZimzim 9y ago
  Looks like the picky eater issue runs a bit deeper for you if you take such offense. I am a picky eater who has taken to eating many newer foods the past 5 years. It truly is as trivial as just doing it. You may gag at some stuff but as with everything in life, if you don't even try to push through it then what can you expect.
emodendroket 9y ago
> Dr. Greger's "How Not to Die" has helped in some of the education and all the references to studies relating. At the risk of belaboring the obvious, you may buy yourself some years with virtuous living, but you are still going to die. It's worth considering whether you want to give up all your small temporal pleasures.
- windexh8er 9y ago
  The point is not baseless longevity. It's to live healthy longer. I have no delusion I won't die. But I have seen people die unhealthy and suffer. My goal is to maximize health overall. Did I state longevity was my goal? No. "Temporal pleasures" are subjective. And you're conflating your tastes with mine incorrectly. I stated I ate a lot of meat, and enjoyed it. I don't miss it having cut it out. That was very surprising to me and I'm simply sharing thoughts. I also suggested if you haven't tried it, how would you know? You don't. Plain and simple.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    No, but you cited a book whose title suggests a premise I have issues with.
    - windexh8er 9y ago
      So what you're saying is you have a problem with a book that has thousands of peer reviewed studies as references. Your only argument is still completely subjective.
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        Is there some objective way to answer the question of how much we should be willing to sacrifice for greater longevity? It's entirely a values question.
        windexh8er 9y ago
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
shirro 9y ago
Dr Gregor references genuine studies and provides some good nutritional advice but he is fundamentally opposed to foods derived from farming animals as are many Internet commentators who come out of the woodwork when there is any controversy around meat and health. I don't doubt his good intentions and I think he attempts to be balanced and use science to back his arguments. But he clearly starts from the position that meat is bad as I think perhaps you do. And perhaps it is. But I would prefer to see that established without prejudice. If you have an ethical problem with eating meat then don't eat it. But I get a little tired of people proselytising as a result of becoming born again vegans. As for curing meat. As you say meat can be dangerous to consumer due to contamination. I would rather a slightly elevated risk of cancer from moderate use of nitrate cured meats than near certain death from botulism or some other nasty. I really would like to see a safer alternative become commercially available but I don't want to be second guessing the microbial safety of my cold cuts. I rarely eat bacon but cold cured meats with salad are a relatively important part of my diet as cooking in our kitchen heats the house too much during the warmer months. I think the big problem with meat, as with the sugar epidemic, is overconsumption. If every meat eater ate meat in moderation as part of a balanced diet there would be far less environmental impact and animal cruelty than creating a small number of vegan converts. Red meat consumption has certainly dropped in Australia though chicken has offset some of that.

tytytytytytytyt 9y ago

> I lost 10lbs of body fat in a month (5'11 @ 175 --> 165) and increased strength in January. You're telling us all this without mentioning what kind of exercise regiment you're on?

windexh8er 9y ago
Nothing has changed so I'm not sure the significance. It's mainly 5-8 miles per week of running, body weight exercises, free weights a few times per week and meditation. This, also, has been replicated in studies.
- riku_iki 9y ago
  Keto people, who supposedly eat a lot of meat and bacon also claim weight loss with references to studies. So, there may be many parallel roads.
  - windexh8er 9y ago
    I've done rounds of Keto while "Paleo" as well. The difference is in the overall nutrition. Meat, outside of protein, is weak per calorie when compared to complete nutrition. It's also higher, per calorie, with regard to negative health aspects depending on the type and cut of meat.
    - riku_iki 9y ago
      and what is your current source of protein, after you cut of meat?
      - windexh8er 9y ago
        The protein argument is probably one of the worst of the food uneducated. I could flip your argument and ask about actual nutrition. What vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc does meat provide? Very few. Protein? Peas, quinoa, beans, nuts, tempeh, leafy greens, seeds, and the list goes on. The difference is something like quinoa is that, compared to any meat, it is calorie for calorie more nutritionally complete. Finally why are you focused on protein to begin with? And how much protein is required for you daily? Overconsumption of has shown negative effects: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045293/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045293/

allthenews 9y ago

>Those who say it adds "value" without actually trying don't have basis to support their claim Please, speak for yourself. Some of us have enough trouble find a variety of food to eat without such restrictions. It is actually insulting to be told that radically changing my diet as an unintentional lifelong picky eater is some trivial exercise. Furthermore it is arrogant to judge value so certainly on behalf of strangers. Put frankly, who are you to tell me what I do and don't like?

bitcoinboi9 9y ago
I don't think he told you anything. He wrote something and you read it. There's also mentions of "slow shifts" and similar, indicating that the change of your diet is not radical and sudden, but gradual and slow. Picky eaters have a somewhat disease and should try to incorporate variety. Otherwise you risk black swans by eating practically the same thing all your life. Eating many ingredients is antifragile :D
windexh8er 9y ago
There was no basis provided. I didn't judge anyone and have tried many diet changes over the years in my quest to better understand food, nutrition and health. I didn't tell anyone to do anything but made the simple suggestion that plant based has made marked improvements in areas for me and that there are no downsides to increasing plants in diet. Did I ever try to tell you what you should like? Nope. Get a grip.
SirZimzim 9y ago
Looks like the picky eater issue runs a bit deeper for you if you take such offense. I am a picky eater who has taken to eating many newer foods the past 5 years. It truly is as trivial as just doing it. You may gag at some stuff but as with everything in life, if you don't even try to push through it then what can you expect.

emodendroket 9y ago

> Dr. Greger's "How Not to Die" has helped in some of the education and all the references to studies relating. At the risk of belaboring the obvious, you may buy yourself some years with virtuous living, but you are still going to die. It's worth considering whether you want to give up all your small temporal pleasures.

windexh8er 9y ago
The point is not baseless longevity. It's to live healthy longer. I have no delusion I won't die. But I have seen people die unhealthy and suffer. My goal is to maximize health overall. Did I state longevity was my goal? No. "Temporal pleasures" are subjective. And you're conflating your tastes with mine incorrectly. I stated I ate a lot of meat, and enjoyed it. I don't miss it having cut it out. That was very surprising to me and I'm simply sharing thoughts. I also suggested if you haven't tried it, how would you know? You don't. Plain and simple.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  No, but you cited a book whose title suggests a premise I have issues with.
  - windexh8er 9y ago
    So what you're saying is you have a problem with a book that has thousands of peer reviewed studies as references. Your only argument is still completely subjective.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Is there some objective way to answer the question of how much we should be willing to sacrifice for greater longevity? It's entirely a values question.
      - windexh8er 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

shirro 9y ago

Dr Gregor references genuine studies and provides some good nutritional advice but he is fundamentally opposed to foods derived from farming animals as are many Internet commentators who come out of the woodwork when there is any controversy around meat and health. I don't doubt his good intentions and I think he attempts to be balanced and use science to back his arguments. But he clearly starts from the position that meat is bad as I think perhaps you do. And perhaps it is. But I would prefer to see that established without prejudice. If you have an ethical problem with eating meat then don't eat it. But I get a little tired of people proselytising as a result of becoming born again vegans. As for curing meat. As you say meat can be dangerous to consumer due to contamination. I would rather a slightly elevated risk of cancer from moderate use of nitrate cured meats than near certain death from botulism or some other nasty. I really would like to see a safer alternative become commercially available but I don't want to be second guessing the microbial safety of my cold cuts. I rarely eat bacon but cold cured meats with salad are a relatively important part of my diet as cooking in our kitchen heats the house too much during the warmer months. I think the big problem with meat, as with the sugar epidemic, is overconsumption. If every meat eater ate meat in moderation as part of a balanced diet there would be far less environmental impact and animal cruelty than creating a small number of vegan converts. Red meat consumption has certainly dropped in Australia though chicken has offset some of that.