8 ms·

And in other news, "nitrate free" bacon sold in the US isn't actually nitrate free; "Ever since the “war on nitrates” of the 1970s, US consumers have been more

by zaroth 9y ago

And in other news, "nitrate free" bacon sold in the US isn't actually nitrate free; "Ever since the “war on nitrates” of the 1970s, US consumers have been more savvy about nitrates than those in Europe, and there is a lot of “nitrate-free bacon” on the market. The trouble, as Jill Pell remarks, is that most of the bacon labelled as nitrate-free in the US “isn’t nitrate-free”. It’s made with nitrates taken from celery extract, which may be natural, but produces exactly the same N-nitroso compounds in the meat. Under EU regulation, this bacon would not be allowed to be labelled “nitrate-free”. “It’s the worst con I’ve ever seen in my entire life,” says Denis Lynn, the chair of Finnebrogue Artisan, a Northern Irish company that makes sausages for many UK supermarkets, including Marks & Spencer."

TACIXAT 9y ago
I get sinus headaches from sodium nitrites (among other things). I was stoked about the nitrite free bacon. Had it, got a headache, found out about celery after a bunch of searching. I need to find a butcher so I can just get straight pork belly.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Are you sure it isn't just salt that's doing that to you? There's more nitrate in bacon than in plain pork belly to be sure, but there's actually not much of it, and the amounts you need to consume to have a vasoconstrictive effect seems high. Meanwhile: bacon (along with all cured meat and fish) is one of the very saltiest things we eat. Lots of people are salt-sensitive. This is probably what virtually all claims of "Chinese restaurant syndrome" (MSG sensitivity) turned out to be. You should have no trouble finding pork belly. Try an experiment: just make your own bacon by filling a pan with kosher salt and pushing each side of the pork belly into it until they're all evenly and aggressively covered. Wrap the meat in plastic wrap, dump the pan, and put the meat back in it; leave it in the fridge for 3-4† days. Rinse it off and slice it. See if you get a headache from eating it. (Home-cured bacon is good but if you don't add some of the carcinogen back to the cure, it's not safe to keep much longer than fresh meat is). † That's a light cure, but long enough for this experiment, and if you're new to baconing and don't know what to look for, under-cured is better than over.
  - TACIXAT 9y ago
    I am actually sure. I eat salt daily. I'll try that with the pork belly because it sounds delicious. The big footnote missing from my post is that I'm celiac. I've done a ton of trial and error to find foods that cause me problems. I basically eat chicken (seasoned with salt and pepper) and rice (with butter) everyday. I only drink water and unsweetened vanilla almond milk. My snacks are popcorn and salted potato or corn chips. On this diet I don't get sinus headaches. No one likes to hear it, but I've isolated monosodium glutamate as a trigger too. It's in a ton of flavored chips that I ate thinking they'd be fine for me. Give me a month to try this. I'll let you know how it turns out.
    - meej 9y ago
      I'm a bit late here, but I am wondering if you've considered the possibility that your sinus headaches are actually migraines? The two are often confused because they present similarly, and it is believed amongst headache and migraine experts that most so-called sinus headaches are actually migraines. It would explain the MSG trigger, too.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      You eat salt daily, of course, but you're never eating so much concentrated salt as you are when you eat any significant amount of bacon. I'm not suggesting that you're so sensitive that the amount of salt you get from a salt shaker, or from seasoning a steak or a burger before cooking it, is going to set you off. There's so much salt in the bacon that it dramatically alters the texture of the meat! You also believe yourself to be sensitive to MSG, but the common thread between the foods that are causing you symptoms might not be a pair of poorly-observed sensitivities, but rather that the foods that trigger you tend to be very salty.
      - mathattack 9y ago
        It doesn’t seem like much sodium per Google. https://www.google.com/search?q=bacon+nutritional+value&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS590US590&oq=bacon+nurition&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l3.6963j0j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=bacon+nutritional+value&rlz=...
jonahx 9y ago
Is it possible to find legitimately nitrate-free bacon in the US? If so, under what brand?
- hammock 9y ago
  No. Bacon, salami and some other meats must be cured by FDA definition (either nirites added and sold as "cured" or sold as "uncured" but with "celery juice" which really means it's still cured) Confusing I know
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Not only is meat cured with celery extract still cured, but it probably has more nitrates than "artificially" cured meat, since if you're using powdered nitrate salt, you can add precisely the amount you need. Generally: if it tastes like what you expect ham or bacon to taste like, or it looks like what you expect it to look like, it's cured with nitrates. Nitrates have a powerful effect on flavor and color.
    - jonahx 9y ago
      > Generally: if it tastes like what you expect ham or bacon to taste like, or it looks like what you expect it to look like, it's cured with nitrates. So you are saying that even if I got my own raw pork belly from the butcher and learned how to cure it properly with salt, its look and taste would still be inferior to the delicious blocks of bacon I get at any chain grocery store?
      - tptacek 9y ago
        It won't taste "hammy" without nitrates. It won't be bad. Everything tastes better cured.
  - batbomb 9y ago
    That's not entirely true. It must be cured, but it doesn't necessarily need nitrites to cure it. You can buy salt cured bacon here: https://shop.bentonscountryham.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=hscb https://shop.bentonscountryham.com/ProductDetails.asp?Produc...
TaylorGood 9y ago
Basically remove bacon, chorizo etc. from your life. Heavier meats I tend to avoid, but my girlfriend loves the first two. Read her excerpts of the articles last night and it made for an awkward bedtime. It's not that I seek these types of warnings, but given how often she uses bacon in meals it was a must to share..
- umanwizard 9y ago
  If your girlfriend wants to trade vastly increased life satisfaction for a slightly higher risk of developing one of the slowest-growing and most treatable cancers, I say let her.
  - bamdoggle 9y ago
    In the article, the author discusses a number of other cancers (breast, brain...) that nitrosamines cause. Colon and rectal cancers are the most prevalent, but not at all the only ones. And... quality prosciutto and other pork belly products can be obtained from most local butchers without nitrites or nitrates, so you can avoid these things and still live very happily indeed with salty pork. Also, the results of nitrosamines happen faster than I believe you expect from what you posted. Colon and rectal cancers have been on the rise for decades. So, I see your point, but it's an uglier problem than I think you realize and there are some easy solutions available.
  - windexh8er 9y ago
    "Vastly increased" is subjective at best and sounds like a bad excuse. I was "Paleo" for years and decided to try mostly plant based recently. As background I smoked my own bacon and had 1-2 eggs that accompanied it every morning for years. I haven't eaten meat since Jan 1 of this year as an experiment in blood panel results, body fat, and general "feel" of abandoning meats. I was already mostly dairy free (don't consume animal milks with the exception of purchased baked goods or cheeses - a few times a week at worst) for over 7 years. If you haven't tried a shift toward a plant based diet, I would argue you have no clue. Because I didn't. Giving meat up is actually easier than things like cheese as an example. I lost 10lbs of body fat in a month (5'11 @ 175 --> 165) and increased strength in January. I also improved all blood panel markers by a minimum of 15% (WellnessFX). But the best part is the subjective part: overall feel. I feel much better, more consistently and more often on mostly plant based. Things within my pallette have changed quickly. Dr. Greger's "How Not to Die" has helped in some of the education and all the references to studies relating. Cooking, however is a fundamental shift from Paleo so that is one of the hardest parts you have to focus on right away. I had so many recipes I loved and became frustrated early finding alternatives. However after 2 months I'm enjoying cooking with new foods and techniques. I've picked up about a dozen new cookbooks and have learned a lot in short order. Overall, again, I feel your statement is unfounded and I'd suggest for those interested in improving their health to try slow shifts to more plants. There's only upside and there are many studies in support of. The final piece of it is our planet. Animals raised for meat production requires excessive energy and waste. Beyond that most of our meat supply chain is riddled with things such as E Coli (supported in many recent studies - as an example of the many: https://www.asm.org/index.php/mbiosphere/item/6219-connecting-the-food-supply-and-urinary-tract-infections https://www.asm.org/index.php/mbiosphere/item/6219-connectin...). TL:DR Don't miss meat after giving it up. Those who say it adds "value" without actually trying don't have basis to support their claim.
tptacek 9y ago
There is no such thing as "nitrate free".
xkcd-sucks 9y ago
Does raw/sauteed celery have a similarly high nitrate content? That seems like a much bigger issue than bacon, which most people eat sparingly

by zaroth 9y ago

TACIXAT 9y ago

I get sinus headaches from sodium nitrites (among other things). I was stoked about the nitrite free bacon. Had it, got a headache, found out about celery after a bunch of searching. I need to find a butcher so I can just get straight pork belly.

tptacek 9y ago
Are you sure it isn't just salt that's doing that to you? There's more nitrate in bacon than in plain pork belly to be sure, but there's actually not much of it, and the amounts you need to consume to have a vasoconstrictive effect seems high. Meanwhile: bacon (along with all cured meat and fish) is one of the very saltiest things we eat. Lots of people are salt-sensitive. This is probably what virtually all claims of "Chinese restaurant syndrome" (MSG sensitivity) turned out to be. You should have no trouble finding pork belly. Try an experiment: just make your own bacon by filling a pan with kosher salt and pushing each side of the pork belly into it until they're all evenly and aggressively covered. Wrap the meat in plastic wrap, dump the pan, and put the meat back in it; leave it in the fridge for 3-4† days. Rinse it off and slice it. See if you get a headache from eating it. (Home-cured bacon is good but if you don't add some of the carcinogen back to the cure, it's not safe to keep much longer than fresh meat is). † That's a light cure, but long enough for this experiment, and if you're new to baconing and don't know what to look for, under-cured is better than over.
- TACIXAT 9y ago
  I am actually sure. I eat salt daily. I'll try that with the pork belly because it sounds delicious. The big footnote missing from my post is that I'm celiac. I've done a ton of trial and error to find foods that cause me problems. I basically eat chicken (seasoned with salt and pepper) and rice (with butter) everyday. I only drink water and unsweetened vanilla almond milk. My snacks are popcorn and salted potato or corn chips. On this diet I don't get sinus headaches. No one likes to hear it, but I've isolated monosodium glutamate as a trigger too. It's in a ton of flavored chips that I ate thinking they'd be fine for me. Give me a month to try this. I'll let you know how it turns out.
  - meej 9y ago
    I'm a bit late here, but I am wondering if you've considered the possibility that your sinus headaches are actually migraines? The two are often confused because they present similarly, and it is believed amongst headache and migraine experts that most so-called sinus headaches are actually migraines. It would explain the MSG trigger, too.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    You eat salt daily, of course, but you're never eating so much concentrated salt as you are when you eat any significant amount of bacon. I'm not suggesting that you're so sensitive that the amount of salt you get from a salt shaker, or from seasoning a steak or a burger before cooking it, is going to set you off. There's so much salt in the bacon that it dramatically alters the texture of the meat! You also believe yourself to be sensitive to MSG, but the common thread between the foods that are causing you symptoms might not be a pair of poorly-observed sensitivities, but rather that the foods that trigger you tend to be very salty.
    - mathattack 9y ago
      It doesn’t seem like much sodium per Google. https://www.google.com/search?q=bacon+nutritional+value&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS590US590&oq=bacon+nurition&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l3.6963j0j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=bacon+nutritional+value&rlz=...

jonahx 9y ago

Is it possible to find legitimately nitrate-free bacon in the US? If so, under what brand?

hammock 9y ago
No. Bacon, salami and some other meats must be cured by FDA definition (either nirites added and sold as "cured" or sold as "uncured" but with "celery juice" which really means it's still cured) Confusing I know
- tptacek 9y ago
  Not only is meat cured with celery extract still cured, but it probably has more nitrates than "artificially" cured meat, since if you're using powdered nitrate salt, you can add precisely the amount you need. Generally: if it tastes like what you expect ham or bacon to taste like, or it looks like what you expect it to look like, it's cured with nitrates. Nitrates have a powerful effect on flavor and color.
  - jonahx 9y ago
    > Generally: if it tastes like what you expect ham or bacon to taste like, or it looks like what you expect it to look like, it's cured with nitrates. So you are saying that even if I got my own raw pork belly from the butcher and learned how to cure it properly with salt, its look and taste would still be inferior to the delicious blocks of bacon I get at any chain grocery store?
    - tptacek 9y ago
      It won't taste "hammy" without nitrates. It won't be bad. Everything tastes better cured.
- batbomb 9y ago
  That's not entirely true. It must be cured, but it doesn't necessarily need nitrites to cure it. You can buy salt cured bacon here: https://shop.bentonscountryham.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=hscb https://shop.bentonscountryham.com/ProductDetails.asp?Produc...

TaylorGood 9y ago

Basically remove bacon, chorizo etc. from your life. Heavier meats I tend to avoid, but my girlfriend loves the first two. Read her excerpts of the articles last night and it made for an awkward bedtime. It's not that I seek these types of warnings, but given how often she uses bacon in meals it was a must to share..

umanwizard 9y ago
If your girlfriend wants to trade vastly increased life satisfaction for a slightly higher risk of developing one of the slowest-growing and most treatable cancers, I say let her.
- bamdoggle 9y ago
  In the article, the author discusses a number of other cancers (breast, brain...) that nitrosamines cause. Colon and rectal cancers are the most prevalent, but not at all the only ones. And... quality prosciutto and other pork belly products can be obtained from most local butchers without nitrites or nitrates, so you can avoid these things and still live very happily indeed with salty pork. Also, the results of nitrosamines happen faster than I believe you expect from what you posted. Colon and rectal cancers have been on the rise for decades. So, I see your point, but it's an uglier problem than I think you realize and there are some easy solutions available.
- windexh8er 9y ago
  "Vastly increased" is subjective at best and sounds like a bad excuse. I was "Paleo" for years and decided to try mostly plant based recently. As background I smoked my own bacon and had 1-2 eggs that accompanied it every morning for years. I haven't eaten meat since Jan 1 of this year as an experiment in blood panel results, body fat, and general "feel" of abandoning meats. I was already mostly dairy free (don't consume animal milks with the exception of purchased baked goods or cheeses - a few times a week at worst) for over 7 years. If you haven't tried a shift toward a plant based diet, I would argue you have no clue. Because I didn't. Giving meat up is actually easier than things like cheese as an example. I lost 10lbs of body fat in a month (5'11 @ 175 --> 165) and increased strength in January. I also improved all blood panel markers by a minimum of 15% (WellnessFX). But the best part is the subjective part: overall feel. I feel much better, more consistently and more often on mostly plant based. Things within my pallette have changed quickly. Dr. Greger's "How Not to Die" has helped in some of the education and all the references to studies relating. Cooking, however is a fundamental shift from Paleo so that is one of the hardest parts you have to focus on right away. I had so many recipes I loved and became frustrated early finding alternatives. However after 2 months I'm enjoying cooking with new foods and techniques. I've picked up about a dozen new cookbooks and have learned a lot in short order. Overall, again, I feel your statement is unfounded and I'd suggest for those interested in improving their health to try slow shifts to more plants. There's only upside and there are many studies in support of. The final piece of it is our planet. Animals raised for meat production requires excessive energy and waste. Beyond that most of our meat supply chain is riddled with things such as E Coli (supported in many recent studies - as an example of the many: https://www.asm.org/index.php/mbiosphere/item/6219-connecting-the-food-supply-and-urinary-tract-infections https://www.asm.org/index.php/mbiosphere/item/6219-connectin...). TL:DR Don't miss meat after giving it up. Those who say it adds "value" without actually trying don't have basis to support their claim.

tptacek 9y ago

There is no such thing as "nitrate free".

xkcd-sucks 9y ago

Does raw/sauteed celery have a similarly high nitrate content? That seems like a much bigger issue than bacon, which most people eat sparingly