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Maybe my English is off there, I meant that there should be no restrictions based on gender for jobs/studies etc. I think you get my point. Everybody should hav

Maybe my English is off there, I meant that there should be no restrictions based on gender for jobs/studies etc. I think you get my point. Everybody should have the same options to choose from

rayiner 9y ago
“We won’t formally discriminate against you” is a pretty watered definition of “equality.” It’s like saying everyone has an equal chance to win the race” because the rules allow anyone to win. But there could still be rocks in one of the lanes and not in the others. For a race, nobody would say each racer had an equal chance unless there was substitutability: your race experience is the same no matter which lane you start in.
- NiklasMort 9y ago
  But that is not only about gender, discrimination is everywhere...male as female suffer from that
  - rayiner 9y ago
    Its not evenly distributed by field. I wouldn’t say men have “equality of opportunity” when it comes to say being kindergarten teachers.
- deltron3030 9y ago
  Equal lanes is impossible to accomplish, the're just too many variables. What makes more sense is focusing on the best possible path forward for everybody, or creating the opportunity for the racer to be as fast as he can be, independent of the speed of other racers.
- mpweiher 9y ago
  > “We won’t formally discriminate against you” is a pretty watered definition of “equality.” Disagree. > It’s like saying everyone has an equal chance to win the race” because the rules allow anyone to win That's pretty much the definition of equal chance. > But there could still be rocks in one of the lanes and not in the others. Could. Maybe. But, staying in the metaphor: it's both exceedingly rare for there to be rocks in one lane and not another, and exceedingly obvious if it is the case. And nobody assumes that there are rocks because there are clear winners and losers in races. Everybody assumes that the person who won was fastest. But for some bizarre reason in other fields, we not just assume that there being winners means there must be rocks, we absolutely insist that that is the only possible explanation and vilify people who say "well, maybe the person who won was fastest?"
  - rayiner 9y ago
    > Could. Maybe. But, staying in the metaphor: it's both exceedingly rare for there to be rocks in one lane and not another, and exceedingly obvious if it is the case. It is obvious if you’re not willfully blind. How many women have to tell stories of, e.g., trying to make professional connections only to have a coworker make a sexual advance on them instead before you’ll believe that there’s rocks in their lane?
    - mpweiher 9y ago
      Well yes, you are being willfully blind (a) Anecdotes != data (b) You cannot assume that a man in the same situation would have made a successful professional connection (c) In fact, the woman, if she isn't entirely daft, will have additional levers to pull (d) You might have noticed "staying in the metaphor"
      - psyc 9y ago
        (a) Ah yes, the conversation-stopping killer of thousands upon thousands of Hacker News threads. Can I get a published study on whether this is a good cultural norm for a discussion forum?

Maybe my English is off there, I meant that there should be no restrictions based on gender for jobs/studies etc. I think you get my point. Everybody should have the same options to choose from

rayiner 9y ago

“We won’t formally discriminate against you” is a pretty watered definition of “equality.” It’s like saying everyone has an equal chance to win the race” because the rules allow anyone to win. But there could still be rocks in one of the lanes and not in the others. For a race, nobody would say each racer had an equal chance unless there was substitutability: your race experience is the same no matter which lane you start in.

NiklasMort 9y ago
But that is not only about gender, discrimination is everywhere...male as female suffer from that
- rayiner 9y ago
  Its not evenly distributed by field. I wouldn’t say men have “equality of opportunity” when it comes to say being kindergarten teachers.
deltron3030 9y ago
Equal lanes is impossible to accomplish, the're just too many variables. What makes more sense is focusing on the best possible path forward for everybody, or creating the opportunity for the racer to be as fast as he can be, independent of the speed of other racers.
mpweiher 9y ago
> “We won’t formally discriminate against you” is a pretty watered definition of “equality.” Disagree. > It’s like saying everyone has an equal chance to win the race” because the rules allow anyone to win That's pretty much the definition of equal chance. > But there could still be rocks in one of the lanes and not in the others. Could. Maybe. But, staying in the metaphor: it's both exceedingly rare for there to be rocks in one lane and not another, and exceedingly obvious if it is the case. And nobody assumes that there are rocks because there are clear winners and losers in races. Everybody assumes that the person who won was fastest. But for some bizarre reason in other fields, we not just assume that there being winners means there must be rocks, we absolutely insist that that is the only possible explanation and vilify people who say "well, maybe the person who won was fastest?"
- rayiner 9y ago
  > Could. Maybe. But, staying in the metaphor: it's both exceedingly rare for there to be rocks in one lane and not another, and exceedingly obvious if it is the case. It is obvious if you’re not willfully blind. How many women have to tell stories of, e.g., trying to make professional connections only to have a coworker make a sexual advance on them instead before you’ll believe that there’s rocks in their lane?
  - mpweiher 9y ago
    Well yes, you are being willfully blind (a) Anecdotes != data (b) You cannot assume that a man in the same situation would have made a successful professional connection (c) In fact, the woman, if she isn't entirely daft, will have additional levers to pull (d) You might have noticed "staying in the metaphor"
    - psyc 9y ago
      (a) Ah yes, the conversation-stopping killer of thousands upon thousands of Hacker News threads. Can I get a published study on whether this is a good cultural norm for a discussion forum?