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"Duress of circumstances" is available as a defence for anybody accused of a crime. I would presume that would cover many cases of undercovers committing minor

by Joeboy 9y ago

"Duress of circumstances" is available as a defence for anybody accused of a crime. I would presume that would cover many cases of undercovers committing minor crimes to maintain their covers in threatening circumstances. I'm not aware that it's ever been a real issue, eg. I'm not sure if there's any suggestion of Bob Lambert being prosecuted for his alleged involvement in firebombing Debenhams. Edit: I'm a bit confused about what the actual legal implications of this "guidance" are. IIUC it's about guidance given to MI5 agents, as such I suppose in theory the legal implication is that if they commit "authorised" crimes they could argue in court that it's their employer's responsibility.

pjc50 9y ago
No, but the Met did pay nearly half a million quid to avoid going into the question of whether an undercover policeman sleeping with his target constituted rape.
- Joeboy 9y ago
  I think, tbf, that was more about dodging the question of child support than rape. I don't think any of the women targeted by undercover police officers are pursuing rape cases.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >I don't think any of the women targeted by undercover police officers are pursuing rape cases. Why wouldn't you think that? In fact, they are doing exactly that: "11 women (...) are currently suing the police after being tricked into having sexual relationships with men later revealed to be undercover officers (...)". Especially when the "women targeted by undercover police officers" are not some hardened terrorists living undercover themselves (who'd avoid going to courts at all costs), but people e.g. belonging to some environmental activists group or some left wing protesters, etc.
    - Joeboy 9y ago
      They are pursuing cases, but they are not rape cases. I believe they're human rights and other cases.
    - John_KZ 9y ago
      That's really fucked up.
  - quietbritishjim 9y ago
    The idea of prosecuting for rape definitely came up, but English law defines "rape" too narrowly for deceiving someone into giving consent to count. Interestingly, there is one exception: deceiving someone about what your gender is in order to convince them to have sex with you, and there has even been a prosecution: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception
- primitur 9y ago
  Its even worse. Put this recent news in the light of the coverup over ministerial child sexual abuse in the UK .. now they've got a very significant means of getting themselves out of that particular pickle, eh boys?

by Joeboy 9y ago

pjc50 9y ago

No, but the Met did pay nearly half a million quid to avoid going into the question of whether an undercover policeman sleeping with his target constituted rape.

Joeboy 9y ago
I think, tbf, that was more about dodging the question of child support than rape. I don't think any of the women targeted by undercover police officers are pursuing rape cases.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >I don't think any of the women targeted by undercover police officers are pursuing rape cases. Why wouldn't you think that? In fact, they are doing exactly that: "11 women (...) are currently suing the police after being tricked into having sexual relationships with men later revealed to be undercover officers (...)". Especially when the "women targeted by undercover police officers" are not some hardened terrorists living undercover themselves (who'd avoid going to courts at all costs), but people e.g. belonging to some environmental activists group or some left wing protesters, etc.
  - Joeboy 9y ago
    They are pursuing cases, but they are not rape cases. I believe they're human rights and other cases.
  - John_KZ 9y ago
    That's really fucked up.
- quietbritishjim 9y ago
  The idea of prosecuting for rape definitely came up, but English law defines "rape" too narrowly for deceiving someone into giving consent to count. Interestingly, there is one exception: deceiving someone about what your gender is in order to convince them to have sex with you, and there has even been a prosecution: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception
primitur 9y ago
Its even worse. Put this recent news in the light of the coverup over ministerial child sexual abuse in the UK .. now they've got a very significant means of getting themselves out of that particular pickle, eh boys?