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Ask HN: Why did you choose to have children?

74 points by nmyk 9y ago

sbinthree 9y ago
I have wanted to have kids since I was ten. I am in the process of having them as early as I can and will have as many as I can afford or until my wife loses interest. The main bottleneck is finding the right person for you, with shared values and overlapping timelines. Once you have that, and you want to have kids, why wait? Why have success, if not to share it? I wanted to have kids to get fulfillment from the mentorship and difficulty. I like to be behind the scenes, helping other people find success and fulfillment, and primarily just providing a platform for them. I like to do it on a small scale, with big impact. I like to pay for things for the people I care about and watch them become independent of me. All of those things I learned relatively early on and led back to the pattern of paternalism and altruism in parenting. So I think I had the drive before I identified it as kid-having. I am not surprised at all that a lot of people are choosing not to have kids. Many people seem disinterested in it and that to me leads to lose-lose situations between the parents and kids. Many divorces seem to be based on the fact that they only got married in the first place because of an accidental child and then tried to do the "honourable" thing. If you don't want to have kids, don't try to make yourself, just live somewhere where that is normal and OK. As a person, I tend to find meaning in a few select activities. I like work, I work a lot, I enjoy it intrinsically and deeply. I always felt I would find meaning in kids in a way equivalent or more so than I do in work. I find no meaning in most friendships, institutions, "changing the world", cultural traditions, status, etc. I just care about learning, working and having a big impact on a small group of people around me (ie. family). I think most people these days are too cautious when it comes to having kids though. You really don't need to both have six figure incomes, own a house and be in your mid-to-late thirties to be "ready". I think that culture is shifting back though, as people who wait until too late have more fertility issues and find it very tiring to keep up with the kids. It takes a village to raise a child, you can't replace the village with two rich middle aged people, that seems to just be a recipe for more misery than people who do it sooner. I would choose this again 100%. I would always advise people, if you want to have kids, and your partner doesn't, find someone who does because those feelings don't go away. If you don't want to have kids, really really work to avoid having kids, because feeling like a victim combined with this process must be the definition of hell. It's not something you can be non-committal about. It's, do I want to be all in on this, or not, one must decide.
- UncleEntity 9y ago
  > I think most people these days are too cautious when it comes to having kids though. I was talking with a woman just this morning about her kids, one starting having kids at 13 and has 8 now and the other is 14, stays out till 3am (when she comes home at all) and is probably on the fast track to becoming a baby making machine. I think a lot of people are entirely not cautious enough when it comes to having children.
  - sosborn 9y ago
    The people who need to be cautious tend not to be, and vice versa.
  - amag 9y ago
    Hehe, your comment reminds me of Idiocracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1-340ODCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1-340ODCM
ideonexus 9y ago
Neil Postman wrote, “Children are the living messages we send to a time we will not see.” As a humanist, I don't have invisible gods or an afterlife to comfort me into apathy about the human condition. If I want the world to be a better place, I have to make it so and having children is an important dimension to that. We've limited ourselves to two because my wife and I are both full-time software developers and we can't handle "being outnumbered" as we like to joke, but raising two boys is a remarkable experience. I've experienced many kinds of love in my life, love for family, romantic love for my wife, but this new kind of love for our children is so powerful and pure. It's so precious, drives me to be a better person for them, and I am so grateful to experience it.
justaguyhere 9y ago
I guess most people have children because thats the default? Maybe a better question is "why did you choose not to have children"?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- fghtr 9y ago
  Ask HN: Why did you choose not to have children? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16510584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16510584
haZard_OS 9y ago
I didn't exactly choose to have children. When I was younger, I suffered from a series of highly debilitating health issues (the details of which I will not go into here) and a young woman chose to take advantage of the situation and become impregnated. Now, don't get me wrong; I love my children dearly. I did not chose to have them in any normal sense, however.
- majewsky 9y ago
  Same post, but readable: > I didn't exactly choose to have children. When I was younger, I suffered from a series of highly debilitating health issues (the details of which I will not go into here) and a young woman chose to take advantage of the situation and become impregnated. > Now, don't get me wrong; I love my children dearly. I did not chose to have them in any normal sense, however.
partisan 9y ago
I think my wife and I came to the conclusion at the same time. We were a little too infatuated with our cat and found that there was a growing vacuum in our lives that was appearing despite most other things being constant. It was the feeling of wanting to create something. As a subconscious trigger, the nerdy part of me started thinking about getting into AI. One day, we had a very brief discussion in which we agreed to let it happen. Though it had been difficult at times (twins) and each day is a new challenge for them and for us, we made the right choice. My wife is sitting with them building Lego houses as I type this.
uptownfunk 9y ago
I think it’s one of those things that’s difficult to understand until you actually have them. I don’t think I could have conceived of the joy and happiness I would experience having a child before actually having them. I’ve got a 9 mo old, and planning to have a couple more. It’s a hard to explain feeling of fulfillment and completeness, except one where I didn’t realize something was missing until I actually had them. That said I look back to the time when it was just me and my wife and really enjoy those memories too, but those have their place, time and duration and when you have kids you realize that they are something with their own relish that you can enjoy too. I’m also somewhat superstitious/quasi hippy so I believe kids bring their own karma and destiny into the worlds, which, when interacting with your own life can change it for the better or worse. Not necessarily a reason to have them per se but an observation nonetheless. Overall it’s been an amazing experience. I love coming home to see my little guy, and make him smile which makes me smile in turn. They are amazing little AI machines. And you can’t help thinking And helping them become whatever they are meant to become in their fullest actualization.
- noobhacker 9y ago
  Is there any way you can think of to get a proxy for that feeling without actually having kid? I want to gather more data on whether I want to be a parent, and yet all parents tell me "you won't know until you try it." What if I try it and don't enjoy being a parent? The cost of a child being stuck with an unhappy parent is too much to risk it.
  - zornthewise 9y ago
    A very approximate proxy might be pets.
  - gamechangr 9y ago
    That question shows how far away you are from understanding it. There is in fact - no other way. It would prove much harder than you think. It's like describing a color to someone without using the name of the color or pointing to it. Or since you presumably don't have children, it's like trying to describe a color that doesn't exist. Don't believe the whole dog/cat comparison. That's totally broken.
tyingq 9y ago
I suspect, subconsciously, it’s the closest thing we have to immortality. If I have kids and foster a good relationship, I might be remembered after my demise.
- harikb 9y ago
  Now, if you haven’t watched coco... I suggest you get on it right away
hbnyc 9y ago
I haven't had children yet. I want to because some of my greatest memories were with my dad. I want to enable someone to experience those feelings, and experience the other side of them as well.
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  I didn't want to because all of my worst memories were with my parents. Now I have a baby I always think about ways I can be a better parent than mine were.
gamechangr 9y ago
Best choice I ever made. There is more to life than success, money, and personal ambition (make a difference). Being a father is the highest form of true selflessness. It's like you transcend even your own desires.
- Hnrobert42 9y ago
  That’s interesting that you feel that way. I am not trying to diminish your belief. Clearly it is true for you. However for me, having children is the most profoundly selfish thing I can imagine. Creating another person to give myself fulfillment and purpose. Especially considering how difficult climate change and AI will make life for the next generation or two, I feel morally compelled not to have children. However, as I said, I recognize your experience is different. It’s interesting how different.
  - gamechangr 9y ago
    Do you have children? What's funny is you even think of having kids through the focus of you, like you could find purpose. That's seriously self involved man. It's not about you. From a distance drowning looks a lot like swimming. Swimming is fun and enjoyable, where as drowning in a desire for personal fulfillment isn't. Get in the water (have kids), it may surprise you.
benjohnson 9y ago
We didn't 'choose' - but having a child was the best accident that ever happened to us. I had a miserable childhood, and having an awesome and joyous time with our three children has redeemed my hurt - it's part of my memory, but no longer important. Having kind, wise, and creative children has given me hope for the world that comes after me - and I'm grateful that have the responsibility to raise them. It's also helped cured many of my neurosis - I don't procrastinate, I set goals, I get up in the morning, I'm not a gloomy pessimist and I'm not at irrationally angry. And even though children are expensive - I'm richer because I have better character traits. My kids saved my life by taking my own greed for my own life away from me - I live for them and my wife. I never knew that existed.
- econner 9y ago
  Well said.
moreorless 9y ago
The condom broke.
amriksohata 9y ago
Duty and support. As a Hindu we believe that it is impossible to pay the debt you are born with to your parents for looking after you and raising you unless you have children yourself. Hence we are bound by duty for society, to parents, ancestors and also for support later in life.
- gdilla 9y ago
  what happens to infertile couples? adopt?
  - amriksohata 9y ago
    That's a whole other thing with debt, everything is based on dharma and karma, so if it's your bad karma that you are infertile (for whatever past life reason) then it is the dharma of other people to help you and also for you to seek out other ways. Adoption could be one way the Garuda Purana enlists various alternatives for example for those without kids and who else can do their final rites etc
mhermher 9y ago
Don't have kids yet, but my partner is pregnant now. I know I have wanted kids for a while, but I think it really kicked in in the last year. I have thought about why we both kind of felt that way. My best guess is that I have reached a point in my life and career where I can recognize that my utility to the world has peaked essentially. In maybe a non-sensical way, it seems like having children is my best remaining contribution to the world. Maybe I can make a slightly better version of myself and teach him how to be a better person than I was. Otherwise, it seems like what I have learned and all the knowledge I have accumulated will essentially be wasted. What was the entire point after all? If I don't pass down all of the things I have learned, then what was really the point to ever learning it or experiencing it? And I am not talking about things you can learn from a book, I mean the lessons of life experiences. Not sure if that is a great reason, or even if it is really the reason. Just my guess from introspection on it. Why is it that I felt now was really the time?
- lprubin 9y ago
  By your logic, wouldn't adopting be a better way to help the world? You would still be able to pass on your knowledge and attempt to create a better version of yourself, but you wouldn't be producing yet another person straining the resources of the world. Not to mention the massive value added to the life of your adopted child.
  - mhermher 9y ago
    Yes, possibly, and we have lightly considered it in the past. It is a really difficult process though, and I am not sure we really wanted to wait some indefinite amount of time and go through all the difficulty of the process. Maybe that was selfish in a way.
    - lprubin 9y ago
      I understand that the adoption process is a big pain. But compared to the massive physical strain on the body of the mother and the risk of death / debilitating injury / birth defects / trauma of losing a pregnancy / risk of postpartum depression etc etc etc, I really can't understand how that could possibly even compare to dealing with an annoying and slow bureaucratic process.
strooper 9y ago
We didn't choose, we just didn't prevent. However, the impact was much greater than we had imagined. The sense of responsibility increased my work efficiency (income) at least five fold, the affection bound us all together like nothing else ever did before, and brought out the parental qualities I never thought I had inside me. ...and after two years, the second one is on the way... :)
davidjgraph 9y ago
Partner expecting 6th in May. I'd look at it the other way round, does anyone who has children ever regret it? Personally, like the vast majority, not for a second.
- city41 9y ago
  Is that true though? It’s very socially unacceptable to publicly admit you regret having kids, not to mention very damaging for the child if they found out. There have been anonymous forums (Reddit AMAs come to mind) where people have admitted they regret having kids.
- chriskanan 9y ago
  Here are a couple articles about people that regret it: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yvxadj/the-mothers-who-regret-having-kids https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yvxadj/the-mothers-who-re... http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/sc-regret-children-family-0110-20170105-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/sc-regret-children-...
ggg9990 9y ago
I wasn’t really into the idea of having kids but I had one because my wife wanted to and I liked being with my wife. I went completely bonkers for the kid and now want to have as many as possible.
- electriclove 9y ago
  This pretty much describes me too.
meheleventyone 9y ago
I was and am in the best relationship of my life and she asked. Can’t say I agreed without trepidation as I’ve not been around young kids since I was one but it felt right. I think it was one of the best decisions of my life. A hell of a lot of work that isn’t always very fun but ultimately the most rewarding adventure.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
corry 9y ago
Notice that most of the comments here are describing post-hoc how having children has been fulfilling/great/worth it. Which isn't really the question - it's not asking if having children was a good move in retrospect. It's interesting that most people's minds go there. I've had this happen myself after having a son - the original "why" almost doesn't matter or rather gets overshadowed by all the other parts of it (for most people, a deep sense of purpose and fulfillment). To actually answer the question, my partner and I came to a place where our relationship was great, jobs were great, etc - but we felt a certain "is this it?". Sure, being DINKS is a nice life, lots of travel, easy, etc. But... hmmmmmm... is this it? Amuse ourselves until we die? Stay clean and simple, have fun, work hard... hmmmmmm.... Meanwhile there was a quiet impulse in the background beckoning towards creating something out of our relationship / position. It's hard to describe. Obviously biology is playing a role here. But what a wonderful chaotic creative thing, two different people coming together and making a third person. So we had a vague sense of all that. And decided to go for it. As many other people have said in this thread, your life changes immediately and irrevocably when kids arrive, but for us it's been pure joy. Lots of chaos too. My wife remarks that she didn't realize what a big hole was in her life before becoming a mother. That's maybe the best way to describe it. We had a sense that there was a hole in our lives, or something that would grow into a big hole if we didn't have kids.
- obv_not 9y ago
  as someone in my 30s whose friends are starting to have children, i always suspected this. i call it the groundhog day effect. basically things just start getting repetitive, you start making more money than you know what to do with (other than hoard), and you start answering the biological urge to have children and shake things up.
- gdilla 9y ago
  DINK life is nice until your social circle is filled with people with kids. You can hang with younger couples, sure, but it wears out fast. The opportunities to hang with people your own age at some regular frequency greatly diminishes (cuz they are tired and have to deal with kids). There is nothing wrong with this - you can splurge on travel and self-development, retire way earlier, or what have you; totally fine and rewarding. It comes down to what you value (I like playing sports and video games with my son more than hanging out with grownups).
smackay 9y ago
For me it was a sense of obligation which was brought home after reading this in the Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins: No doubt some of your cousins and great-uncles died in childhood, but not a single one of your ancestors did. Jerry Seinfeld then cemented my fate with "Don't break the chain".
jonsen 9y ago
Kids? Just say no: https://aeon.co/essays/having-children-is-not-life-affirming-its-immoral https://aeon.co/essays/having-children-is-not-life-affirming...
- NiceGuy_Ty 9y ago
  Doesn't this just make the argument that having kids is bad for them? That doesn't affect whether or not it has a positive impact on the lives of the couple. Also, this assumes that you ascribe to the anti-natalism viewpoint, which to me seems like as much of a thought experiment as nihilism.
SlowBro 9y ago
Edit: Before you downvote read the paragraph at the end please. True story: I didn’t want kids. I knew I was selfish and didn’t want to ruin kids. But one day I pondered Psalm 127:3-5. I reasoned that if God called children a blessing then who am I to call Him a liar? I’m glad I believed that promise. It’s not been what I feared at all. Those verses say: Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate. (ESV) Hey downvoters: You don’t have to agree with my reasons. The OP asked why and I answered. Be a little open minded would you?
- kbd 9y ago
  Upvoted you. People here tend to be intolerant of any religious opinion. Edit: I'm a believer and desperately don't want children. Dunno whether this is an inconsistency in my faith or just how I'm built. This whole thread is a little maddening to me because I wish people would stop making new people, but everyone seems so happy doing it :)
  - SlowBro 9y ago
    I also study Permaculture, which is a science of study of the environment. There is a paradox discussed in Permaculture: “The problem becomes the solution.” Applying that to the population numbers, we may actually not have /enough/ people. The problem of too many people becomes the solution: Get enough people acting rightly and many other problems get solved. Some Permaculturists believe the earth has the capacity for fifty billion people; it’s just that current resources are so poorly managed. We may not have enough people to solve so many of the world's pressing problems. The alternative is to treat people like weeds. But we need a path of love, not fear.
    - kbd 9y ago
      Fwiw, I didn't mean to imply that my wish that people stop making more people was due to fears of overpopulation. (We have so much empty space left! And new technologies to discover, and so on.) Rather, it's based on my own desire to not exist.
BatFastard 9y ago
The "choice" to have children is the lizard part of the brain at the task its been optimized for the last 500 million years, reproducing. Some people try to rationalize the choice, but it is a primal driving force. It can also been seen as the desire to have sex. Although in some configurations there are less than optimal results.
- BatFastard 9y ago
  That being said, I have found the process to be the most fulfilling of my life. It has helped that we have made enough money to keep us comfortable and allow our children to attend private schools, daycare, etc. There is a balance, many of my sons don't really have a relationship with their fathers. Seems to be less of an issue with my daughters friends. I suspect I could have a much larger net worth if I had worked more. But I am glad I made the choice of spending as much time with my kids as I could.
gyrgtyn 9y ago
Life finds a way
lifeisstillgood 9y ago
I doubt anyone chooses to have children in the sense you are thinking. The biological urge and societal pressure is so huge it is almost always a question of when not if. Can I suggest a better question would be "why did you choose to have more children?" And did the reasoning change from n+1 to n+2 ...
pmarreck 9y ago
Everything is awesome except the sex which only happens about once a month and half the time results in... dissatisfaction, so I’m on the fence when it comes to such a massive commitment, but leaving her would close to kill me so... Maybe it doesn’t matter since sex seems to take a massive backseat after the kids show up?
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  For me, I wouldn't say that it takes a backseat, so much as that everything takes a backseat due to the immediacy of the needs of young children. I think one of the important things you can do to build a lasting marriage is to make sure you put your spouse ahead of your children on a regular basis, even just in small ways. You have to maintain the intimacy in your relationship even when it's not easy to do so. There's nothing wrong with locking the bedroom door once in a while.
fendmark 9y ago
We had a health scare that led us to accelerate our timeline (we had always planned to have kids). My wife and I had our first kid at 30, second at 33. The trend these days is definitely to wait till much later, but I can say that I look forward to having the kids fully grown and on their own when I am in my early 50's as opposed to my 60's. That said as my Dad always said, there is no convenient time to have kids, which couldn't be more true. Having kids is an amazing journey, but not for everyone. I totally respect people who choose not to have kids. With kids, at different times you will think it is the best and worst decision you've ever made. Lots of highs and lows. But ultimately it is very gratifying and helps you to better see the world beyond yourself.
fit2rule 9y ago
Simple answer: Because the world is full of stupidity and I wanted to do something about that. Complex answer: I feel that its important to continue the progress of evolution, and my personal life has been very evolutionary: I've lived on multiple continents, learned a couple of languages, discarded any participation in my native culture, and discovered that ultimately all culture is a lie. Cultures are a lie that persist only in the telling. I've done a lot of fulfilling things in my life, and I've done quite a few stupid things - I too am full of stupid. I'd quite like the world to be a better place in 10 years, in 20 years, and in 50 years .. and one of the only ways I can feel as if I've contributed to actually pushing things in a positive direction is to have children, teach them the lessons I've learned, and let them loose on the world. Some would consider this an egotistical, arrogant, narcissistic point of view, but I do believe my children will bring something to the world that wasn't there before. At least, that is the hope. And amongst all the crazy chaos and stupidity, when I think about what really gives me tangible hope, its children. Whether my own, or other children, the experience of witnessing a child learning something I've come to take for granted, and instantly pushing my own understanding beyond the curve with a simple comment or two that I would never have considered, has been enough to motivate me. Children are hope, manifest. Without hope, all is lost.
troglobit 9y ago
I met the right person at the right moment in my life. Before that I didn't want to procreate at all. It was not thought through, it suddenly just felt like the right thing to do. Have not regretted that decision for a single day of my life.
LyndsySimon 9y ago
If I'm being totally honest - probably a combination of "biological imperative" and "cultural values". I wouldn't change it for the world, but it's not like we sat down and did an exhaustive analysis of the impact that it would have on our lives before we made the decision. We both wanted kids, so we had them. QED.
nickmancol 9y ago
Context: My wife and I are software devs (C# / Java, Groovy, Pyhton, R), we chosen to have a kid at the end of 2014 after living in some countries together for 5 years, in 2016 we welcomed our first child. The first reason was that we considered our relationship strong enough to give an opportunity to a human being to be raised in a love home. We are very different from each other but always we try to solve our differences with several conversations, so we thought that a child raised with the ideas of diversity, dialogue, fun and social compromise will be a good way to improve the world. We are also considering to adopt in the future. The last reason was personal and cultural, in my family I am the only brother that decided to have children and I love the idea of teach alongside with my parents some of the important lessons that I learned from them.
3princip 9y ago
We wanted children but were putting it off, actually I was putting it off with the excuse that we had to get in a more stable financial situation. That was just an excuse, the reason was immaturity on my part. I wasn't ready yet. Got a well-paying job, there were no longer any obstacles that could be used to rationalize, so with some apprehension we decided it was the right time to try. After a few months she was pregnant. Our son was born 6 years ago, I was 27 at the time. We also have a daughter now. It hasn't been easy, we don't rely on family or outside help to raise them, mostly, and there are other things you simply can't predict. But such is life. No regrets, life is much richer than before. Children add a new dimension to life. All the delays before we finally committed to having children seem so pointless in retrospect. We were just putting off moving on in life.
vijayshankarv 9y ago
Are there any women in this thread? As a male, would love to know more about the female perspective.
- deleted 9y ago
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icc97 9y ago
* In a stable relationship * Because I thought I could be a good dad * Because I thought I had enough education and would enjoy teaching a mini person * Selfishly, assuming you do a decent job, you'll have someone to help when you're older. Not as a carer but someone who can take major decisions on your behalf * Because the world needs more scientists and I figured I could brainwash a new one
thom 9y ago
Spent a large portion of my life devoted to making things, programming being a great career for anyone with that compulsion. But nothing was quite as astonishing as the idea of making a person, and more than that, creating brand new _love_ out of nowhere, at a time in your life where it's possible to think the amount of love in your life has plateaued. There were other, worse reasons - at the time I felt like (vaguely) intelligent people had an Idiocracy-style responsibility to try and make more clever people, which isn't a point of view I like at all, looking back. However, I _do_ think the world needs more _compassionate_ people, which I think we've so far achieved. I also had a strong belief that I wanted to do a better job than _my_ father, which isn't a particularly good reason to have kids, but there you go. It's a funny, difficult decision really. It's a very big commitment for an introvert to make - I don't think there's a lot of advice out there for geeks looking to procreate, who value their 'me' time very highly. And more generally people don't talk about the negatives, which leads new parents to doubt themselves when they hit the many, many rocky bits. There's a balance of _wanting_ to have kids (perhaps for unfulfilled emotional needs), and thinking you _should_ have kids that I suspect is impossible to get right. Whether there's a good decision procedure to know if you'd be a good or happy parent, I have no idea. If you think about everything you've ever seen a person close to you do, good or bad, and imagine all those behaviours crammed down into a frenetic 12 hours, every day, for a very long time, does that seem fun to you?
munsonbh 9y ago
Because every ancestor of mine has made the decision to do it, and it is astoundingly presumptuous of me to think that if I have the opportunity to raise kids well that I shouldn’t follow their lead. Another way to put it: if my offspring keep the strain alive, maybe my genetic code will live to see the end of history. I now have two kids, and the thing that will overwhelm me with emotion is the fact that I brought into the world beings that will both suffer and die. But I never blame my parents for doing the same.
asveikau 9y ago
Once you have kids you "cross the vortex" and cannot accurately remember life before them. Even after you have them, you start forgetting the time when they were in a previous phase as they progress. The lack of sleep doesn't help retain the memories. So we can only share details and justifications about why we enjoy the present state of parenthood. I think one that I come back to a lot is "because somebody did it for me". I.e. I am doing my small part carrying on the human experiment, helping my new humans figure it out in the early stages. There seem to be a number of things in life that you can feel like you understand better now having been personally in charge of cleaning up another human being's poop. It is a wonderful thing, of course not without stresses and challenges.
deleted 9y ago
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AndrewDucker 9y ago
Context: First child is due in two months and a day. I always assumed I wouldn't have kids, because I just never wanted to. And then my brother had a kid, and I met someone who I thought I could actually be a decent co-parent with, and the combination made me think it was totally doable. On top of that, I read about a longevity study which showed that connections in old age are the biggest correlation to happiness. And when I imagined myself aged 70 with kids, and aged 70 without kids, the first one made me feel a lot happier. I'm totally aware that having kids tends to cause a dip in happiness to start with, but I'm fairly confident that I'll feel a lot happier, and better about my place in the world, with children than I would without.
defen 9y ago
Tone: deliberately somewhat inflammatory, in the hopes of sparking a discussion; this is in addition to all the "standard" reasons people give. Because most traits, including IQ and conscientiousness, are strongly heritable, and therefore assortative mating + smart-people-not-having-kids is one of the worst large-scale social dynamics happening today. Because people who deliberately choose not to have kids when they are otherwise capable (financially, mentally, physically) are free-riding on the hard work of everyone else.
- mnm1 9y ago
  Seems to me it's the people that have kids that generally free ride on society, not the other way around (not that there's anything wrong with that). Also, it's incredibly authoritative to expect people who are capable to have kids. Romania tried that in the 70s and 80s with Ceauseascu banning all contraception. Well the people gave him the only Christmas gift a person who bans contraceptives ever deserves: execution. That was the greatest Christmas in Romanian history.
  - oliwarner 9y ago
    There are other ways to influence this. The biggest problem society can face in this regard is unsupported children. No snobbery here but this is a problem we can throw money at. Better schools, better class sizes, free school meals to combat malnutrition, adult education to fight multi-generational unemployment. Middle class families are already doing their bit here. Additional income taxes on DINKs (via higher base rates and breaks for supported children) could really help the next generation of lower class children, and therefore society as a whole.
- oliwarner 9y ago
  AKA, eugenics. Obviously a controversial word thanks to modern history but at a personal level, this is what drives populations; a belief (innate or otherwise) that your offspring will make the world better. But even past the genetic level, as somebody with education and moderate means, I do feel like our children will also be well educated and with the support of our resources will be able to make positive changes to the world. I happen to agree with you on the broader point. People who put their lifestyle/career ahead of family might be a net drain on society. But you can't force people to procreate or stop others based on their socio-economic standing. All you can do is give disadvantaged children a step up with better resources: better public schooling, early-years nurseries, free school meals, etc. And adult education for those without jobs. And pay for that with higher income taxes at the middle class, with breaks for having and supporting children (within limit). Essentially an added tax on DINKs to support lower class children.
htk 9y ago
I didn’t plan to have kids, but I then read something that clicked in my head, it was along the lines of “if you don’t have any children, your life is like a dead-end road”. I had/have several arguments against having children (inevitable death, crazy world, etc), but the dead-end road analogy made me rethink everything; not in a egocentrical way, but made me think of how my life is great and special and how I can give someone else the opportunity to continue it, just like my parents did with me.
muzani 9y ago
From an Asian perspective, children are a pension scheme and insurance policy. It's a child's duty to support their parents on their old age. My mother in law is semi paralyzed, and we support her. But it's hard because my wife is an only child. Also due to this cultural setting, there are few old folks homes, whether government or private. Some are run strictly too where an old person can't play with their phones at night, etc. There's the Asian businessman aspect too - a father builds a legacy, and the children take the business the father has established and expands it. It's a fantasy, especially for those born with less of an advantage, who are ambitious but want to pave the way for their children to live out those ambitions. From a religious perspective, a pious child will pray for their parents and keep them out of hell. So it's an afterlife investment as well. Materialism aside, children are fun. They're cute. On a rough day at work, it's nice to have someone miss you. They're nice to have around the house and nice to share the home with. What's the point of becoming rich without someone to share it with? The spouse only lives for so long. You need someone to be with in your 90s, someone to visit you when all your friends are dead.
Yetanfou 9y ago
We didn't so much 'choose to have children', we just chose not to abstain from having children. We did choose to have sex and from sex you can get children. There are all sorts of things you can do to try to keep them from being conceived but they are generally boring, unhealthy, tedious, unpleasant or a combination of those. As to why we did not choose to abstain from having children - which in my opinion would be the real choice to make given that having children is the normal result of two healthy people of fertile age and opposite sex having intercourse - I can but say that I wouldn't be here to argue this point if my parents had made the choice to abstain from having children. I quite like being here. This might sound trivial but it really isn't, just give it some thought.
bwb 9y ago
I choose to have kids because I wanted to see the world through their eyes, it is like getting to both re-watch the world and see it through new eyes all at the same time. And, better yet I get to play along, learn, and just be amazed. I love it :). This is also a reason why I got married, although under some other reasons.
jinushaun 9y ago
For me it was this simple: Because you can cross everything off your bucket list—climb the highest mountains, sail across the ocean, become rich and famous, whatever—but you’ll forever miss out on countless other milestones and experiences if you never raise a child. IMHO, a bucket list that doesn’t include kids will always be a bucket list that is half empty.
khedoros1 9y ago
Through college and my late 20s, I wasn't interested in having children. When I got married 5 years ago, I was happy just learning to live in marriage. About a year in, we started talking about what we saw in the future. Over many conversations, discussions of our financial situation, family medical histories, and feelings, we decided that we both saw our family growing beyond two people. It just felt like the natural next move.

74 points by nmyk 9y ago

I have wanted to have kids since I was ten. I am in the process of having them as early as I can and will have as many as I can afford or until my wife loses interest. The main bottleneck is finding the right person for you, with shared values and overlapping timelines. Once you have that, and you want to have kids, why wait? Why have success, if not to share it? I wanted to have kids to get fulfillment from the mentorship and difficulty. I like to be behind the scenes, helping other people find success and fulfillment, and primarily just providing a platform for them. I like to do it on a small scale, with big impact. I like to pay for things for the people I care about and watch them become independent of me. All of those things I learned relatively early on and led back to the pattern of paternalism and altruism in parenting. So I think I had the drive before I identified it as kid-having. I am not surprised at all that a lot of people are choosing not to have kids. Many people seem disinterested in it and that to me leads to lose-lose situations between the parents and kids. Many divorces seem to be based on the fact that they only got married in the first place because of an accidental child and then tried to do the "honourable" thing. If you don't want to have kids, don't try to make yourself, just live somewhere where that is normal and OK. As a person, I tend to find meaning in a few select activities. I like work, I work a lot, I enjoy it intrinsically and deeply. I always felt I would find meaning in kids in a way equivalent or more so than I do in work. I find no meaning in most friendships, institutions, "changing the world", cultural traditions, status, etc. I just care about learning, working and having a big impact on a small group of people around me (ie. family). I think most people these days are too cautious when it comes to having kids though. You really don't need to both have six figure incomes, own a house and be in your mid-to-late thirties to be "ready". I think that culture is shifting back though, as people who wait until too late have more fertility issues and find it very tiring to keep up with the kids. It takes a village to raise a child, you can't replace the village with two rich middle aged people, that seems to just be a recipe for more misery than people who do it sooner. I would choose this again 100%. I would always advise people, if you want to have kids, and your partner doesn't, find someone who does because those feelings don't go away. If you don't want to have kids, really really work to avoid having kids, because feeling like a victim combined with this process must be the definition of hell. It's not something you can be non-committal about. It's, do I want to be all in on this, or not, one must decide.

UncleEntity 9y ago
> I think most people these days are too cautious when it comes to having kids though. I was talking with a woman just this morning about her kids, one starting having kids at 13 and has 8 now and the other is 14, stays out till 3am (when she comes home at all) and is probably on the fast track to becoming a baby making machine. I think a lot of people are entirely not cautious enough when it comes to having children.
- sosborn 9y ago
  The people who need to be cautious tend not to be, and vice versa.
- amag 9y ago
  Hehe, your comment reminds me of Idiocracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1-340ODCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1-340ODCM

ideonexus 9y ago

Neil Postman wrote, “Children are the living messages we send to a time we will not see.” As a humanist, I don't have invisible gods or an afterlife to comfort me into apathy about the human condition. If I want the world to be a better place, I have to make it so and having children is an important dimension to that. We've limited ourselves to two because my wife and I are both full-time software developers and we can't handle "being outnumbered" as we like to joke, but raising two boys is a remarkable experience. I've experienced many kinds of love in my life, love for family, romantic love for my wife, but this new kind of love for our children is so powerful and pure. It's so precious, drives me to be a better person for them, and I am so grateful to experience it.

justaguyhere 9y ago

I guess most people have children because thats the default? Maybe a better question is "why did you choose not to have children"?

deleted 9y ago
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fghtr 9y ago
Ask HN: Why did you choose not to have children? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16510584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16510584

haZard_OS 9y ago

I didn't exactly choose to have children. When I was younger, I suffered from a series of highly debilitating health issues (the details of which I will not go into here) and a young woman chose to take advantage of the situation and become impregnated. Now, don't get me wrong; I love my children dearly. I did not chose to have them in any normal sense, however.

majewsky 9y ago
Same post, but readable: > I didn't exactly choose to have children. When I was younger, I suffered from a series of highly debilitating health issues (the details of which I will not go into here) and a young woman chose to take advantage of the situation and become impregnated. > Now, don't get me wrong; I love my children dearly. I did not chose to have them in any normal sense, however.

partisan 9y ago

I think my wife and I came to the conclusion at the same time. We were a little too infatuated with our cat and found that there was a growing vacuum in our lives that was appearing despite most other things being constant. It was the feeling of wanting to create something. As a subconscious trigger, the nerdy part of me started thinking about getting into AI. One day, we had a very brief discussion in which we agreed to let it happen. Though it had been difficult at times (twins) and each day is a new challenge for them and for us, we made the right choice. My wife is sitting with them building Lego houses as I type this.

uptownfunk 9y ago

I think it’s one of those things that’s difficult to understand until you actually have them. I don’t think I could have conceived of the joy and happiness I would experience having a child before actually having them. I’ve got a 9 mo old, and planning to have a couple more. It’s a hard to explain feeling of fulfillment and completeness, except one where I didn’t realize something was missing until I actually had them. That said I look back to the time when it was just me and my wife and really enjoy those memories too, but those have their place, time and duration and when you have kids you realize that they are something with their own relish that you can enjoy too. I’m also somewhat superstitious/quasi hippy so I believe kids bring their own karma and destiny into the worlds, which, when interacting with your own life can change it for the better or worse. Not necessarily a reason to have them per se but an observation nonetheless. Overall it’s been an amazing experience. I love coming home to see my little guy, and make him smile which makes me smile in turn. They are amazing little AI machines. And you can’t help thinking And helping them become whatever they are meant to become in their fullest actualization.

noobhacker 9y ago
Is there any way you can think of to get a proxy for that feeling without actually having kid? I want to gather more data on whether I want to be a parent, and yet all parents tell me "you won't know until you try it." What if I try it and don't enjoy being a parent? The cost of a child being stuck with an unhappy parent is too much to risk it.
- zornthewise 9y ago
  A very approximate proxy might be pets.
- gamechangr 9y ago
  That question shows how far away you are from understanding it. There is in fact - no other way. It would prove much harder than you think. It's like describing a color to someone without using the name of the color or pointing to it. Or since you presumably don't have children, it's like trying to describe a color that doesn't exist. Don't believe the whole dog/cat comparison. That's totally broken.

tyingq 9y ago

I suspect, subconsciously, it’s the closest thing we have to immortality. If I have kids and foster a good relationship, I might be remembered after my demise.

harikb 9y ago
Now, if you haven’t watched coco... I suggest you get on it right away

hbnyc 9y ago

I haven't had children yet. I want to because some of my greatest memories were with my dad. I want to enable someone to experience those feelings, and experience the other side of them as well.

kelukelugames 9y ago
I didn't want to because all of my worst memories were with my parents. Now I have a baby I always think about ways I can be a better parent than mine were.

gamechangr 9y ago

Best choice I ever made. There is more to life than success, money, and personal ambition (make a difference). Being a father is the highest form of true selflessness. It's like you transcend even your own desires.

Hnrobert42 9y ago
That’s interesting that you feel that way. I am not trying to diminish your belief. Clearly it is true for you. However for me, having children is the most profoundly selfish thing I can imagine. Creating another person to give myself fulfillment and purpose. Especially considering how difficult climate change and AI will make life for the next generation or two, I feel morally compelled not to have children. However, as I said, I recognize your experience is different. It’s interesting how different.
- gamechangr 9y ago
  Do you have children? What's funny is you even think of having kids through the focus of you, like you could find purpose. That's seriously self involved man. It's not about you. From a distance drowning looks a lot like swimming. Swimming is fun and enjoyable, where as drowning in a desire for personal fulfillment isn't. Get in the water (have kids), it may surprise you.

benjohnson 9y ago

We didn't 'choose' - but having a child was the best accident that ever happened to us. I had a miserable childhood, and having an awesome and joyous time with our three children has redeemed my hurt - it's part of my memory, but no longer important. Having kind, wise, and creative children has given me hope for the world that comes after me - and I'm grateful that have the responsibility to raise them. It's also helped cured many of my neurosis - I don't procrastinate, I set goals, I get up in the morning, I'm not a gloomy pessimist and I'm not at irrationally angry. And even though children are expensive - I'm richer because I have better character traits. My kids saved my life by taking my own greed for my own life away from me - I live for them and my wife. I never knew that existed.

econner 9y ago
Well said.

moreorless 9y ago

The condom broke.

amriksohata 9y ago

Duty and support. As a Hindu we believe that it is impossible to pay the debt you are born with to your parents for looking after you and raising you unless you have children yourself. Hence we are bound by duty for society, to parents, ancestors and also for support later in life.

gdilla 9y ago
what happens to infertile couples? adopt?
- amriksohata 9y ago
  That's a whole other thing with debt, everything is based on dharma and karma, so if it's your bad karma that you are infertile (for whatever past life reason) then it is the dharma of other people to help you and also for you to seek out other ways. Adoption could be one way the Garuda Purana enlists various alternatives for example for those without kids and who else can do their final rites etc

mhermher 9y ago

Don't have kids yet, but my partner is pregnant now. I know I have wanted kids for a while, but I think it really kicked in in the last year. I have thought about why we both kind of felt that way. My best guess is that I have reached a point in my life and career where I can recognize that my utility to the world has peaked essentially. In maybe a non-sensical way, it seems like having children is my best remaining contribution to the world. Maybe I can make a slightly better version of myself and teach him how to be a better person than I was. Otherwise, it seems like what I have learned and all the knowledge I have accumulated will essentially be wasted. What was the entire point after all? If I don't pass down all of the things I have learned, then what was really the point to ever learning it or experiencing it? And I am not talking about things you can learn from a book, I mean the lessons of life experiences. Not sure if that is a great reason, or even if it is really the reason. Just my guess from introspection on it. Why is it that I felt now was really the time?

lprubin 9y ago
By your logic, wouldn't adopting be a better way to help the world? You would still be able to pass on your knowledge and attempt to create a better version of yourself, but you wouldn't be producing yet another person straining the resources of the world. Not to mention the massive value added to the life of your adopted child.
- mhermher 9y ago
  Yes, possibly, and we have lightly considered it in the past. It is a really difficult process though, and I am not sure we really wanted to wait some indefinite amount of time and go through all the difficulty of the process. Maybe that was selfish in a way.
  - lprubin 9y ago
    I understand that the adoption process is a big pain. But compared to the massive physical strain on the body of the mother and the risk of death / debilitating injury / birth defects / trauma of losing a pregnancy / risk of postpartum depression etc etc etc, I really can't understand how that could possibly even compare to dealing with an annoying and slow bureaucratic process.

strooper 9y ago

We didn't choose, we just didn't prevent. However, the impact was much greater than we had imagined. The sense of responsibility increased my work efficiency (income) at least five fold, the affection bound us all together like nothing else ever did before, and brought out the parental qualities I never thought I had inside me. ...and after two years, the second one is on the way... :)

davidjgraph 9y ago

Partner expecting 6th in May. I'd look at it the other way round, does anyone who has children ever regret it? Personally, like the vast majority, not for a second.

city41 9y ago
Is that true though? It’s very socially unacceptable to publicly admit you regret having kids, not to mention very damaging for the child if they found out. There have been anonymous forums (Reddit AMAs come to mind) where people have admitted they regret having kids.
chriskanan 9y ago
Here are a couple articles about people that regret it: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yvxadj/the-mothers-who-regret-having-kids https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yvxadj/the-mothers-who-re... http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/sc-regret-children-family-0110-20170105-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/sc-regret-children-...

ggg9990 9y ago

I wasn’t really into the idea of having kids but I had one because my wife wanted to and I liked being with my wife. I went completely bonkers for the kid and now want to have as many as possible.

electriclove 9y ago
This pretty much describes me too.

meheleventyone 9y ago

I was and am in the best relationship of my life and she asked. Can’t say I agreed without trepidation as I’ve not been around young kids since I was one but it felt right. I think it was one of the best decisions of my life. A hell of a lot of work that isn’t always very fun but ultimately the most rewarding adventure.

deleted 9y ago

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corry 9y ago

Notice that most of the comments here are describing post-hoc how having children has been fulfilling/great/worth it. Which isn't really the question - it's not asking if having children was a good move in retrospect. It's interesting that most people's minds go there. I've had this happen myself after having a son - the original "why" almost doesn't matter or rather gets overshadowed by all the other parts of it (for most people, a deep sense of purpose and fulfillment). To actually answer the question, my partner and I came to a place where our relationship was great, jobs were great, etc - but we felt a certain "is this it?". Sure, being DINKS is a nice life, lots of travel, easy, etc. But... hmmmmmm... is this it? Amuse ourselves until we die? Stay clean and simple, have fun, work hard... hmmmmmm.... Meanwhile there was a quiet impulse in the background beckoning towards creating something out of our relationship / position. It's hard to describe. Obviously biology is playing a role here. But what a wonderful chaotic creative thing, two different people coming together and making a third person. So we had a vague sense of all that. And decided to go for it. As many other people have said in this thread, your life changes immediately and irrevocably when kids arrive, but for us it's been pure joy. Lots of chaos too. My wife remarks that she didn't realize what a big hole was in her life before becoming a mother. That's maybe the best way to describe it. We had a sense that there was a hole in our lives, or something that would grow into a big hole if we didn't have kids.

obv_not 9y ago
as someone in my 30s whose friends are starting to have children, i always suspected this. i call it the groundhog day effect. basically things just start getting repetitive, you start making more money than you know what to do with (other than hoard), and you start answering the biological urge to have children and shake things up.
gdilla 9y ago
DINK life is nice until your social circle is filled with people with kids. You can hang with younger couples, sure, but it wears out fast. The opportunities to hang with people your own age at some regular frequency greatly diminishes (cuz they are tired and have to deal with kids). There is nothing wrong with this - you can splurge on travel and self-development, retire way earlier, or what have you; totally fine and rewarding. It comes down to what you value (I like playing sports and video games with my son more than hanging out with grownups).

smackay 9y ago

For me it was a sense of obligation which was brought home after reading this in the Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins: No doubt some of your cousins and great-uncles died in childhood, but not a single one of your ancestors did. Jerry Seinfeld then cemented my fate with "Don't break the chain".

jonsen 9y ago

Kids? Just say no: https://aeon.co/essays/having-children-is-not-life-affirming-its-immoral https://aeon.co/essays/having-children-is-not-life-affirming...

NiceGuy_Ty 9y ago
Doesn't this just make the argument that having kids is bad for them? That doesn't affect whether or not it has a positive impact on the lives of the couple. Also, this assumes that you ascribe to the anti-natalism viewpoint, which to me seems like as much of a thought experiment as nihilism.

SlowBro 9y ago

Edit: Before you downvote read the paragraph at the end please. True story: I didn’t want kids. I knew I was selfish and didn’t want to ruin kids. But one day I pondered Psalm 127:3-5. I reasoned that if God called children a blessing then who am I to call Him a liar? I’m glad I believed that promise. It’s not been what I feared at all. Those verses say: Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate. (ESV) Hey downvoters: You don’t have to agree with my reasons. The OP asked why and I answered. Be a little open minded would you?

kbd 9y ago
Upvoted you. People here tend to be intolerant of any religious opinion. Edit: I'm a believer and desperately don't want children. Dunno whether this is an inconsistency in my faith or just how I'm built. This whole thread is a little maddening to me because I wish people would stop making new people, but everyone seems so happy doing it :)
- SlowBro 9y ago
  I also study Permaculture, which is a science of study of the environment. There is a paradox discussed in Permaculture: “The problem becomes the solution.” Applying that to the population numbers, we may actually not have /enough/ people. The problem of too many people becomes the solution: Get enough people acting rightly and many other problems get solved. Some Permaculturists believe the earth has the capacity for fifty billion people; it’s just that current resources are so poorly managed. We may not have enough people to solve so many of the world's pressing problems. The alternative is to treat people like weeds. But we need a path of love, not fear.
  - kbd 9y ago
    Fwiw, I didn't mean to imply that my wish that people stop making more people was due to fears of overpopulation. (We have so much empty space left! And new technologies to discover, and so on.) Rather, it's based on my own desire to not exist.

BatFastard 9y ago

The "choice" to have children is the lizard part of the brain at the task its been optimized for the last 500 million years, reproducing. Some people try to rationalize the choice, but it is a primal driving force. It can also been seen as the desire to have sex. Although in some configurations there are less than optimal results.

BatFastard 9y ago
That being said, I have found the process to be the most fulfilling of my life. It has helped that we have made enough money to keep us comfortable and allow our children to attend private schools, daycare, etc. There is a balance, many of my sons don't really have a relationship with their fathers. Seems to be less of an issue with my daughters friends. I suspect I could have a much larger net worth if I had worked more. But I am glad I made the choice of spending as much time with my kids as I could.

gyrgtyn 9y ago

Life finds a way

lifeisstillgood 9y ago

I doubt anyone chooses to have children in the sense you are thinking. The biological urge and societal pressure is so huge it is almost always a question of when not if. Can I suggest a better question would be "why did you choose to have more children?" And did the reasoning change from n+1 to n+2 ...

pmarreck 9y ago

Everything is awesome except the sex which only happens about once a month and half the time results in... dissatisfaction, so I’m on the fence when it comes to such a massive commitment, but leaving her would close to kill me so... Maybe it doesn’t matter since sex seems to take a massive backseat after the kids show up?

LyndsySimon 9y ago
For me, I wouldn't say that it takes a backseat, so much as that everything takes a backseat due to the immediacy of the needs of young children. I think one of the important things you can do to build a lasting marriage is to make sure you put your spouse ahead of your children on a regular basis, even just in small ways. You have to maintain the intimacy in your relationship even when it's not easy to do so. There's nothing wrong with locking the bedroom door once in a while.

fendmark 9y ago

We had a health scare that led us to accelerate our timeline (we had always planned to have kids). My wife and I had our first kid at 30, second at 33. The trend these days is definitely to wait till much later, but I can say that I look forward to having the kids fully grown and on their own when I am in my early 50's as opposed to my 60's. That said as my Dad always said, there is no convenient time to have kids, which couldn't be more true. Having kids is an amazing journey, but not for everyone. I totally respect people who choose not to have kids. With kids, at different times you will think it is the best and worst decision you've ever made. Lots of highs and lows. But ultimately it is very gratifying and helps you to better see the world beyond yourself.

fit2rule 9y ago

Simple answer: Because the world is full of stupidity and I wanted to do something about that. Complex answer: I feel that its important to continue the progress of evolution, and my personal life has been very evolutionary: I've lived on multiple continents, learned a couple of languages, discarded any participation in my native culture, and discovered that ultimately all culture is a lie. Cultures are a lie that persist only in the telling. I've done a lot of fulfilling things in my life, and I've done quite a few stupid things - I too am full of stupid. I'd quite like the world to be a better place in 10 years, in 20 years, and in 50 years .. and one of the only ways I can feel as if I've contributed to actually pushing things in a positive direction is to have children, teach them the lessons I've learned, and let them loose on the world. Some would consider this an egotistical, arrogant, narcissistic point of view, but I do believe my children will bring something to the world that wasn't there before. At least, that is the hope. And amongst all the crazy chaos and stupidity, when I think about what really gives me tangible hope, its children. Whether my own, or other children, the experience of witnessing a child learning something I've come to take for granted, and instantly pushing my own understanding beyond the curve with a simple comment or two that I would never have considered, has been enough to motivate me. Children are hope, manifest. Without hope, all is lost.

troglobit 9y ago

I met the right person at the right moment in my life. Before that I didn't want to procreate at all. It was not thought through, it suddenly just felt like the right thing to do. Have not regretted that decision for a single day of my life.

LyndsySimon 9y ago

If I'm being totally honest - probably a combination of "biological imperative" and "cultural values". I wouldn't change it for the world, but it's not like we sat down and did an exhaustive analysis of the impact that it would have on our lives before we made the decision. We both wanted kids, so we had them. QED.

nickmancol 9y ago

Context: My wife and I are software devs (C# / Java, Groovy, Pyhton, R), we chosen to have a kid at the end of 2014 after living in some countries together for 5 years, in 2016 we welcomed our first child. The first reason was that we considered our relationship strong enough to give an opportunity to a human being to be raised in a love home. We are very different from each other but always we try to solve our differences with several conversations, so we thought that a child raised with the ideas of diversity, dialogue, fun and social compromise will be a good way to improve the world. We are also considering to adopt in the future. The last reason was personal and cultural, in my family I am the only brother that decided to have children and I love the idea of teach alongside with my parents some of the important lessons that I learned from them.

3princip 9y ago

We wanted children but were putting it off, actually I was putting it off with the excuse that we had to get in a more stable financial situation. That was just an excuse, the reason was immaturity on my part. I wasn't ready yet. Got a well-paying job, there were no longer any obstacles that could be used to rationalize, so with some apprehension we decided it was the right time to try. After a few months she was pregnant. Our son was born 6 years ago, I was 27 at the time. We also have a daughter now. It hasn't been easy, we don't rely on family or outside help to raise them, mostly, and there are other things you simply can't predict. But such is life. No regrets, life is much richer than before. Children add a new dimension to life. All the delays before we finally committed to having children seem so pointless in retrospect. We were just putting off moving on in life.

vijayshankarv 9y ago

Are there any women in this thread? As a male, would love to know more about the female perspective.

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icc97 9y ago

* In a stable relationship * Because I thought I could be a good dad * Because I thought I had enough education and would enjoy teaching a mini person * Selfishly, assuming you do a decent job, you'll have someone to help when you're older. Not as a carer but someone who can take major decisions on your behalf * Because the world needs more scientists and I figured I could brainwash a new one

thom 9y ago

Spent a large portion of my life devoted to making things, programming being a great career for anyone with that compulsion. But nothing was quite as astonishing as the idea of making a person, and more than that, creating brand new _love_ out of nowhere, at a time in your life where it's possible to think the amount of love in your life has plateaued. There were other, worse reasons - at the time I felt like (vaguely) intelligent people had an Idiocracy-style responsibility to try and make more clever people, which isn't a point of view I like at all, looking back. However, I _do_ think the world needs more _compassionate_ people, which I think we've so far achieved. I also had a strong belief that I wanted to do a better job than _my_ father, which isn't a particularly good reason to have kids, but there you go. It's a funny, difficult decision really. It's a very big commitment for an introvert to make - I don't think there's a lot of advice out there for geeks looking to procreate, who value their 'me' time very highly. And more generally people don't talk about the negatives, which leads new parents to doubt themselves when they hit the many, many rocky bits. There's a balance of _wanting_ to have kids (perhaps for unfulfilled emotional needs), and thinking you _should_ have kids that I suspect is impossible to get right. Whether there's a good decision procedure to know if you'd be a good or happy parent, I have no idea. If you think about everything you've ever seen a person close to you do, good or bad, and imagine all those behaviours crammed down into a frenetic 12 hours, every day, for a very long time, does that seem fun to you?

munsonbh 9y ago

Because every ancestor of mine has made the decision to do it, and it is astoundingly presumptuous of me to think that if I have the opportunity to raise kids well that I shouldn’t follow their lead. Another way to put it: if my offspring keep the strain alive, maybe my genetic code will live to see the end of history. I now have two kids, and the thing that will overwhelm me with emotion is the fact that I brought into the world beings that will both suffer and die. But I never blame my parents for doing the same.

asveikau 9y ago

Once you have kids you "cross the vortex" and cannot accurately remember life before them. Even after you have them, you start forgetting the time when they were in a previous phase as they progress. The lack of sleep doesn't help retain the memories. So we can only share details and justifications about why we enjoy the present state of parenthood. I think one that I come back to a lot is "because somebody did it for me". I.e. I am doing my small part carrying on the human experiment, helping my new humans figure it out in the early stages. There seem to be a number of things in life that you can feel like you understand better now having been personally in charge of cleaning up another human being's poop. It is a wonderful thing, of course not without stresses and challenges.

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AndrewDucker 9y ago

Context: First child is due in two months and a day. I always assumed I wouldn't have kids, because I just never wanted to. And then my brother had a kid, and I met someone who I thought I could actually be a decent co-parent with, and the combination made me think it was totally doable. On top of that, I read about a longevity study which showed that connections in old age are the biggest correlation to happiness. And when I imagined myself aged 70 with kids, and aged 70 without kids, the first one made me feel a lot happier. I'm totally aware that having kids tends to cause a dip in happiness to start with, but I'm fairly confident that I'll feel a lot happier, and better about my place in the world, with children than I would without.

defen 9y ago

Tone: deliberately somewhat inflammatory, in the hopes of sparking a discussion; this is in addition to all the "standard" reasons people give. Because most traits, including IQ and conscientiousness, are strongly heritable, and therefore assortative mating + smart-people-not-having-kids is one of the worst large-scale social dynamics happening today. Because people who deliberately choose not to have kids when they are otherwise capable (financially, mentally, physically) are free-riding on the hard work of everyone else.

mnm1 9y ago
Seems to me it's the people that have kids that generally free ride on society, not the other way around (not that there's anything wrong with that). Also, it's incredibly authoritative to expect people who are capable to have kids. Romania tried that in the 70s and 80s with Ceauseascu banning all contraception. Well the people gave him the only Christmas gift a person who bans contraceptives ever deserves: execution. That was the greatest Christmas in Romanian history.
- oliwarner 9y ago
  There are other ways to influence this. The biggest problem society can face in this regard is unsupported children. No snobbery here but this is a problem we can throw money at. Better schools, better class sizes, free school meals to combat malnutrition, adult education to fight multi-generational unemployment. Middle class families are already doing their bit here. Additional income taxes on DINKs (via higher base rates and breaks for supported children) could really help the next generation of lower class children, and therefore society as a whole.
oliwarner 9y ago
AKA, eugenics. Obviously a controversial word thanks to modern history but at a personal level, this is what drives populations; a belief (innate or otherwise) that your offspring will make the world better. But even past the genetic level, as somebody with education and moderate means, I do feel like our children will also be well educated and with the support of our resources will be able to make positive changes to the world. I happen to agree with you on the broader point. People who put their lifestyle/career ahead of family might be a net drain on society. But you can't force people to procreate or stop others based on their socio-economic standing. All you can do is give disadvantaged children a step up with better resources: better public schooling, early-years nurseries, free school meals, etc. And adult education for those without jobs. And pay for that with higher income taxes at the middle class, with breaks for having and supporting children (within limit). Essentially an added tax on DINKs to support lower class children.

htk 9y ago

I didn’t plan to have kids, but I then read something that clicked in my head, it was along the lines of “if you don’t have any children, your life is like a dead-end road”. I had/have several arguments against having children (inevitable death, crazy world, etc), but the dead-end road analogy made me rethink everything; not in a egocentrical way, but made me think of how my life is great and special and how I can give someone else the opportunity to continue it, just like my parents did with me.

muzani 9y ago

From an Asian perspective, children are a pension scheme and insurance policy. It's a child's duty to support their parents on their old age. My mother in law is semi paralyzed, and we support her. But it's hard because my wife is an only child. Also due to this cultural setting, there are few old folks homes, whether government or private. Some are run strictly too where an old person can't play with their phones at night, etc. There's the Asian businessman aspect too - a father builds a legacy, and the children take the business the father has established and expands it. It's a fantasy, especially for those born with less of an advantage, who are ambitious but want to pave the way for their children to live out those ambitions. From a religious perspective, a pious child will pray for their parents and keep them out of hell. So it's an afterlife investment as well. Materialism aside, children are fun. They're cute. On a rough day at work, it's nice to have someone miss you. They're nice to have around the house and nice to share the home with. What's the point of becoming rich without someone to share it with? The spouse only lives for so long. You need someone to be with in your 90s, someone to visit you when all your friends are dead.

Yetanfou 9y ago

We didn't so much 'choose to have children', we just chose not to abstain from having children. We did choose to have sex and from sex you can get children. There are all sorts of things you can do to try to keep them from being conceived but they are generally boring, unhealthy, tedious, unpleasant or a combination of those. As to why we did not choose to abstain from having children - which in my opinion would be the real choice to make given that having children is the normal result of two healthy people of fertile age and opposite sex having intercourse - I can but say that I wouldn't be here to argue this point if my parents had made the choice to abstain from having children. I quite like being here. This might sound trivial but it really isn't, just give it some thought.

bwb 9y ago

I choose to have kids because I wanted to see the world through their eyes, it is like getting to both re-watch the world and see it through new eyes all at the same time. And, better yet I get to play along, learn, and just be amazed. I love it :). This is also a reason why I got married, although under some other reasons.

jinushaun 9y ago

For me it was this simple: Because you can cross everything off your bucket list—climb the highest mountains, sail across the ocean, become rich and famous, whatever—but you’ll forever miss out on countless other milestones and experiences if you never raise a child. IMHO, a bucket list that doesn’t include kids will always be a bucket list that is half empty.

khedoros1 9y ago

Through college and my late 20s, I wasn't interested in having children. When I got married 5 years ago, I was happy just learning to live in marriage. About a year in, we started talking about what we saw in the future. Over many conversations, discussions of our financial situation, family medical histories, and feelings, we decided that we both saw our family growing beyond two people. It just felt like the natural next move.