5 ms·

That something of such dubious “value” would be subject to this kind of competition between giants is shocking to me. Maybe I’m just a paranoiac, but given the

That something of such dubious “value” would be subject to this kind of competition between giants is shocking to me. Maybe I’m just a paranoiac, but given the choice of Amazon, or Google having mics/cameras in my home, I would choose neither. I can’t think of a company I would trust to do that, and yet even people sensitive to privacy concerns on one hand seem blinded by the most petty convenience offered by these devices. The stakes are huge. Both Amazon and Google are building out a new voice-powered operating system that can control everything in your life — from your lights to your garage door to the music and video you stream. That’s... terrifying.

freedomben 9y ago
I tend to agree. I've been a huge privacy and OSS advocate for years, and still consider myself to be so. Yet, over the holidays, based on ravings from friends and family, I picked up some Google Homes on sale and have been loving them for the convenience they offer me and my family. That said, I am deeply concerned about where we are headed in the future. I have a natural distrust of all organizations that grows exponentially with the size of that organization. I don't want to make a choice between the lesser of evils. Yet, as we get deeper and deeper into the pervasiveness of technology, I see a real inability to participate that comes as a result of abstaining. Historically OSS has been late to the party, but at least they show up. I have a hard time seeing open source projects keeping up. I had high hopes in mycroft but it never materialized. I'm not too invested in Google Home to bail, so my soul may still be redeemable. I am nervous about our future options tho.
godzillabrennus 9y ago
You have a voice powered operating system in your pocket with any modern cell phone. Sure, you can trigger it off using a software switch but do you really trust that? Apparently enough people trust it that they keep buying the latest phone models year after year. Anyone who is terrified by this technological shift should at least be cognizant that you are already basically recorded in some way whenever you go out in public in any major city. This is just the next shift.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  I can’t control anything beyond my home, but that’s an ancient fact of life. I can monitor what’s being sent and received by my phone or computers, but Alexa or whatever Google has? This is more than the “next shift” and I can feel the water getting too hot for this frog.
  - singularity2001 9y ago
    what is the difference between your computer's https traffic and Alexas? you can record both and decipher neither (unless you're very clever)
    - CaptSpify 9y ago
      The difference is that I have near total control of my computer's https traffic, whereas I don't have hardy any control over Alexa's.
justboxing 9y ago
> That’s... terrifying. Agreed. But we seem to be in a minority considering how popular these devices are, measured in terms of the millions of such units sold[1]. I guess they are taping into the 'human beings are inherently lazy' thing. [1] Source: > A year ago, Gigaom said Nest was selling 40,000-50,000 thermostats per month. Devitt estimates Nest is selling 100,000 thermostats per month now. http://www.businessinsider.com/nest-revenue-2014-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/nest-revenue-2014-1
criddell 9y ago
> That’s... terrifying. In what ways? How do you think people will be harmed?
- cookiecaper 9y ago
  "Alexa, why doesn't my daddy agree with Emperor of Mankind, His Excellency Jeff Bezos?" Next day, daddy doesn't come home from work, kid never sees him again. An intentionally extreme example, but this type of thing is certainly within the realm of possibility, and gradually making small encroachments.
  - dpark 9y ago
    > this type of thing is certainly within the realm of possibility In your scenario, Bezos is an evil worldwide overlord who murders non-supporters casually. And yet somehow the real problem is an Echo on the kitchen counter. Just... what the fuck? “Realm of possibility” means something very different to you than to me.
    - cookiecaper 9y ago
      Overlords who casually murder non-supporters is not far-fetched by any stretch, such regimes have risen dozens of times just in the last 100 years. These overlords haven't quite reached "worldwide" status yet, but use your imagination. A device that instantaneously and irrevocably transmits anything spoken to it to HQ, and then automatically transcribes it and makes it available for analysis, is absolutely a dangerous tool for censorship and repression. The fact that it looks nice on your counter and also spits out weather reports doesn't automatically invalidate those risks. These BigCos already compose complex, fairly accurate estimations of our interests and beliefs based on the data they read out of our emails, search history, and yes, voice commands. This data is used to make advertising decisions, but there's no reason that the same data can't be applied to "pre-moderate" the opinions of those who've expressed "dangerous views" in private, or worse. It just hasn't been used that way yet (to our knowledge, though it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Facebook or Google are already punishing/down-ranking accounts that express sentiments they dislike). Inviting these companies into your house to sit in every room and listen for "wake words", and then send up snippets of audio to HQ, should not be dismissed as a casual thing, even if the tradeoff is considered acceptable by some.
oceanghost 9y ago
You're not paranoid-- its common sense. We have ABSOLUTELY no control over these devices we're inviting into our homes. We are voluntarily paying for a surveillance apparatus that can be turned against us at any moment. Even if you believe Apple/Google/Amazons intentions are honorable-- these devices will be attacked by every intelligence agency. It is an act of insanity to but this stuff.
- dpark 9y ago
  > We have ABSOLUTELY no control over these devices we're inviting into our homes This is rather alarmist since I control both the power and internet supply to any smart devices I bring into my home. I have much less control over my phone than my Echo.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    I can root my phone and monitor outgoing traffic. If I unplug my smart speaker it’s a brick with zero functionality. I have a range of options with my phone, I have binary options with an Echo or similar device.
    - dpark 9y ago
      You can root your phone and believe you’re monitoring outgoing traffic. Your phone hardware could easily be surreptitiously sending data over 4G and you would likely be unable to verify. Also why do you imagine that an echo is fundamentally unable to be rooted?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

freedomben 9y ago

I tend to agree. I've been a huge privacy and OSS advocate for years, and still consider myself to be so. Yet, over the holidays, based on ravings from friends and family, I picked up some Google Homes on sale and have been loving them for the convenience they offer me and my family. That said, I am deeply concerned about where we are headed in the future. I have a natural distrust of all organizations that grows exponentially with the size of that organization. I don't want to make a choice between the lesser of evils. Yet, as we get deeper and deeper into the pervasiveness of technology, I see a real inability to participate that comes as a result of abstaining. Historically OSS has been late to the party, but at least they show up. I have a hard time seeing open source projects keeping up. I had high hopes in mycroft but it never materialized. I'm not too invested in Google Home to bail, so my soul may still be redeemable. I am nervous about our future options tho.

godzillabrennus 9y ago

You have a voice powered operating system in your pocket with any modern cell phone. Sure, you can trigger it off using a software switch but do you really trust that? Apparently enough people trust it that they keep buying the latest phone models year after year. Anyone who is terrified by this technological shift should at least be cognizant that you are already basically recorded in some way whenever you go out in public in any major city. This is just the next shift.

IntronExon 9y ago
I can’t control anything beyond my home, but that’s an ancient fact of life. I can monitor what’s being sent and received by my phone or computers, but Alexa or whatever Google has? This is more than the “next shift” and I can feel the water getting too hot for this frog.
- singularity2001 9y ago
  what is the difference between your computer's https traffic and Alexas? you can record both and decipher neither (unless you're very clever)
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    The difference is that I have near total control of my computer's https traffic, whereas I don't have hardy any control over Alexa's.

justboxing 9y ago

> That’s... terrifying. Agreed. But we seem to be in a minority considering how popular these devices are, measured in terms of the millions of such units sold[1]. I guess they are taping into the 'human beings are inherently lazy' thing. [1] Source: > A year ago, Gigaom said Nest was selling 40,000-50,000 thermostats per month. Devitt estimates Nest is selling 100,000 thermostats per month now. http://www.businessinsider.com/nest-revenue-2014-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/nest-revenue-2014-1

criddell 9y ago

> That’s... terrifying. In what ways? How do you think people will be harmed?

cookiecaper 9y ago
"Alexa, why doesn't my daddy agree with Emperor of Mankind, His Excellency Jeff Bezos?" Next day, daddy doesn't come home from work, kid never sees him again. An intentionally extreme example, but this type of thing is certainly within the realm of possibility, and gradually making small encroachments.
- dpark 9y ago
  > this type of thing is certainly within the realm of possibility In your scenario, Bezos is an evil worldwide overlord who murders non-supporters casually. And yet somehow the real problem is an Echo on the kitchen counter. Just... what the fuck? “Realm of possibility” means something very different to you than to me.
  - cookiecaper 9y ago
    Overlords who casually murder non-supporters is not far-fetched by any stretch, such regimes have risen dozens of times just in the last 100 years. These overlords haven't quite reached "worldwide" status yet, but use your imagination. A device that instantaneously and irrevocably transmits anything spoken to it to HQ, and then automatically transcribes it and makes it available for analysis, is absolutely a dangerous tool for censorship and repression. The fact that it looks nice on your counter and also spits out weather reports doesn't automatically invalidate those risks. These BigCos already compose complex, fairly accurate estimations of our interests and beliefs based on the data they read out of our emails, search history, and yes, voice commands. This data is used to make advertising decisions, but there's no reason that the same data can't be applied to "pre-moderate" the opinions of those who've expressed "dangerous views" in private, or worse. It just hasn't been used that way yet (to our knowledge, though it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Facebook or Google are already punishing/down-ranking accounts that express sentiments they dislike). Inviting these companies into your house to sit in every room and listen for "wake words", and then send up snippets of audio to HQ, should not be dismissed as a casual thing, even if the tradeoff is considered acceptable by some.

oceanghost 9y ago

You're not paranoid-- its common sense. We have ABSOLUTELY no control over these devices we're inviting into our homes. We are voluntarily paying for a surveillance apparatus that can be turned against us at any moment. Even if you believe Apple/Google/Amazons intentions are honorable-- these devices will be attacked by every intelligence agency. It is an act of insanity to but this stuff.

dpark 9y ago
> We have ABSOLUTELY no control over these devices we're inviting into our homes This is rather alarmist since I control both the power and internet supply to any smart devices I bring into my home. I have much less control over my phone than my Echo.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  I can root my phone and monitor outgoing traffic. If I unplug my smart speaker it’s a brick with zero functionality. I have a range of options with my phone, I have binary options with an Echo or similar device.
  - dpark 9y ago
    You can root your phone and believe you’re monitoring outgoing traffic. Your phone hardware could easily be surreptitiously sending data over 4G and you would likely be unable to verify. Also why do you imagine that an echo is fundamentally unable to be rooted?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]