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Why I Cloned My Dog
- WheelsAtLarge 9y agoDog cloning is brutal. Companies have to go through many many attempts before they get a good result. Who knows how many attempts they had to try before they got the result they wanted. They go through all of this and ultimately it is not the same dog. I wish she would have gone to the pound to save a life there. I hope cloning doesn't become a trend. http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/cloning/qa/questions_answers.html http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/cloning/qa/questions_ans... https://io9.gizmodo.com/5949612/why-cloning-is-a-terrible-way-to-bring-your-pet-dog-back-from-the-dead https://io9.gizmodo.com/5949612/why-cloning-is-a-terrible-wa...
- natecavanaugh 9y agoThank you. I felt a weird mix of impressed and severely grossed out. I've thought about continuing my dog's different lines, but because of my (admittedly extremely superficial) understanding of epigenetics, I never considered it an option. But, I did wish to harvest their genetic database. My pup is a German Shepherd and what we believe to be Pit Bull [0] and is such a smart, sweet, sensitive and overall wonderful little boy that I have wanted to find some way to continue his great DNA soup. But then I realized I have 3 little brothers, some of whom I have no desire in exemplifying, so any sort of genetic continuity has zero guarantee to bringing me any of the happiness I've been blessed to receive. Instead, I've just learned to enjoy this one exceptional and unique little gift. [0] https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwh96pj7lgjwlad/Photo%20Feb%2021%2C%208%2032%2021%20PM.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwh96pj7lgjwlad/Photo%20Feb%2021%2...
- wccrawford 9y agoShe did. In addition to cloning her dog.
- WheelsAtLarge 9y agoYes, but why do cloning when you can go to the pound and get as many dogs as you want. I understand feelings but death is part of life. We don't like it but there are things we just can't change.
- meowface 9y ago>I understand feelings but death is part of life. We don't like it but there are things we just can't change. And cloning isn't even a way to escape death. One could argue that even if her dog could be perfectly physically cloned and even if its consciousness could be mirrored to the clone, it's still not the same being, and the original is still dead. And of course, what happened here is far away from perfect physical cloning (let alone consciousness copying).
- toomuchtodo 9y agoIs it important to the dead creature? Or the rest of the universe that experiences that creature? Star Trek: death at every transport and your “clone” carries on. Worked out okay. A bit of a queasiness factor to get passed. Disclaimer: I had my dog’s genome sequenced (for free through a Harvard study) for cloning later in my life after he’s gone. Because why not. A lot can change in 50-100 years. Plan accordingly.
- meowface 9y agoI guess I just don't see the point. Stick my consciousness into a computer so I or my pets can live past our deaths? Sign me up. But cloning? Who really cares? It'd be like if I were to rush around the globe looking for the person who resembles me the most and pay them money to bear a child just so I can have a son who looks as similar to me as possible... while still not remotely being "me".
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
- oh_sigh 9y agoShe know's it is not the same dog. From the article: > You can clone the look of a dog, but you can’t clone the soul. Still, every time I look at their faces, I think of my Samantha...and smile. Why or how is cloning brutal? I assume that the cloning attempts generally fail before any kind of viable multicellular life?
- duncan-donuts 9y agoI'm not convinced it's a fair assumption that the attempts failed before viable multicellular life.
- JoeAltmaier 9y agoSome cloning is duplicating half the donor dna - which results in some nasty recessive gene problems? So its a 'clone' in the sense it had one parent (donor) but not in the 'identical to the parent' sense.
- dragonwriter 9y agoA lot of them do fail early, but those that don't fail early (or even succeed) have problems. For instance, https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98360&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98360&page=1
- WheelsAtLarge 9y agoSome dogs are born and have to be euthanized since they don't meet the results they want. It's a hope and see process. They hope it will be good but there's no way to know until you have a real dog in many cases.
- nkkollaw 9y agoI read about dog cloning a few years ago. I _believe_ it was done in China. One of the company's promises was that they would not charge for failed attempts at cloning. That lead me to think that they clone dogs and kill them if they don't look like they should and keep doing that until they're happy. Is this true?
- gwern 9y agoYou almost certainly read about the South Korean company. (I'm not sure if there are any Chinese ones yet, it's plausible, but they must get less publicity.) Killing dogs would probably cost too much since the yields won't be too great, and more importantly, they have to deliver both quickly and as puppies. No one pays ~$50k for a clone of their dog or cat and doesn't take delivery as a puppy/kitten. How do you know they will grow up to not look like they should? They're just cute little balls of fluff.
- nkkollaw 9y agoWell, they said there would be multiple attempts, so I assume they're looking for eye color, patterns in the fur and stuff like that?
- gwern 9y agoI think by multiple attempts they mean the viability of the cloning process itself. It's a tricky process and a lot of the cells or embryos will just die on you for various reasons. This is true even of human IVF: if you harvest 5 eggs from a woman, she'll be somewhat lucky to get 1 child born. This is because some of the embryos are clearly abnormal, die while stored, when implanted don't 'take' and result in a pregnancy, or the pregnancy ends in a miscarriage or stillbirth, so on average you need 5+ eggs to start with and many women will have to do 2 (or even more) IVF cycles to get their child. (And you can lose them after birth too! As OP notes, the runt of the litter died.) Similarly with cloning: you just lose lots of embryos along the way from 'cell sample' to 'happy panting healthy puppy delivered to new owner'.
- helloworld 9y agoCloning a dog seems benign, but I suspect that, before long, people will be cloned, too. There are certainly creepy possibilities, e.g., "The Boys from Brazil," which imagines Hitler clones, but also thought-provoking scenarios, e.g., allowing parents to clone a child who died in an accident. What a brave new world we're entering!
- oh_sigh 9y agoHitler clones would be interesting. Hitler didn't have a great early life - would he have been different if he grew up in a healthy household with two loving parents?
- DoreenMichele 9y agoYes. A recent twin incident proved that nurture plays a surprisingly large role, larger than was expected by the investigators. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-35220779 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-35220779
- mtgex 9y agoI'm not sure, the article doesn't mention any of that. It actually tries (weakly) to claim the opposite, with statements like "Carlos and Wilber both had very similar white mobile phones" and "We are a little bit more ego-centric, bigger flirts." Nothing about nurture playing a role though.
- DoreenMichele 9y agoIt's the first article I could find that referenced the twins in question. But researchers said they were surprised how much impact upbringing had. Unlike a lot of twins separated at birth, these were raised in very different socioeconomic circumstances. Project about them: http://drnancysegaltwins.org/bogota-twins-project-gallery http://drnancysegaltwins.org/bogota-twins-project-gallery The best reference I can currently come up with is this comment by tokenadult who has a longstanding interest in twin studies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10100109#10100644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10100109#10100644
- tabeth 9y agoI'm probably just out of touch, but what's with the obsession with dogs, anyhow? > I was so devastated by the loss of my dear Samantha, after 14 years together, that I just wanted to keep her with me in some way. It was easier to let Sammie go if I knew I could keep some part of her alive, something that came from her DNA. A friend had cloned his beloved dog, and I was very impressed with that dog. So Sammie’s doctor took some cells from inside her cheek and the skin on her tummy just before she died. And we sent those cells to ViaGen Pets in Texas. We weren’t even sure if the cells would take. I mean, imagine if someone said this and it was a human. You'd look at 'em like they're insane [1]. [1] By the way, this is literally a Black Mirror episode, S02 E01 (edit: Thanks for the correction!)
- tjr225 9y agoWhile I agree with your second statement, a bond with a dog can be very strong, if that helps you understand your (first) question.
- threatofrain 9y agoI'm not sure how entitlement is relevant here, except to excessively shame her. Entitlement is the view that people owe you something; it's not like this person had the moral expectation that society owed her anything with regards to her pet.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- morganvachon 9y agoPerhaps you meant S02E01 of Black Mirror? Episode 2 of that season is "White Bear" which has nothing to do with cloning.
- WheelsAtLarge 9y agoDogs are really great companions. They become whatever you want them to be and never argue. It's a two-way benefit. I think you have to live with one or be friends with one to understand why they are a big deal. I agree with you though, cloning one is a step too much.
- gilbetron 9y ago$50k to clone according to the company's website - take that money and put it to a far better use.
- _rpd 9y agoHer net worth is $340 million. $50k is not a huge amount for her.
- alsetmusic 9y ago> Her net worth is $340 million. $50k is not a huge amount for her. The degree of wealth does not negate the absurdity of the investment.
- Scaevolus 9y agoThat's equivalent to someone with a $1M net worth spending $150 on a dog.
- gilbetron 9y agoIt's also equivalent to someone that makes $50k/year (roughly the median income in the US) spending their entire salary on a dog.
- gilbetron 9y agoOf course she can afford it, that isn't the point.
- glibgil 9y ago> Why I Cloned My Dog "Because I have money"
- RickJWag 9y agoI'm not one to tell Barbra how to spend her money, but I think she should stop portraying herself as a textbook liberal and champion of the 99%. It doesn't ring very true.
- masonic 9y agochampion of the 99% In practice, she's most comfortable with the 1%. http://www.malibutimes.com/news/article_bdc5ada0-dd0e-5c38-b923-34902fc6fe82.html http://www.malibutimes.com/news/article_bdc5ada0-dd0e-5c38-b... Hence the term, "The Streisand Effect" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect