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I don't think you'll see it done with a web startup anytime soon . . . I've worked at a startup (not really a startup anymore) for 6 years that does software f
by akeefer 18y ago
I don't think you'll see it done with a web startup anytime soon . . .
I've worked at a startup (not really a startup anymore) for 6 years that does software for the P & C insurance industry, and that sort of software is just an entirely different ballgame to develop, implement, and sell. Yes, their existing systems are terrible, but they work(-ish), they've been building them for 20 years so they do a ton of things, and they have anywhere from 5 to 30 different systems that all need to be pieced together. In addition, those systems are often really core to their business: changing things requires huge investments in terms of integration work and re-training, and such decisions are not made lightly. In addition, they're still not (yet) comfortable with losing control of their data. That's changing, but most big non-tech businesses just aren't going to put, say, their insurance policies or their medical records in some third-party website's hands where they don't have direct access to the database. That part's probably going to change eventually, though.
The other problem is that building these systems is hard: they're huge in terms of functionality (a claims system just does a hell of a lot and has a ton of different screens, rules, and tables), so they take a long time to build, and they require an enormous amount of industry-specific knowledge that takes a long time to build up. Feedback cycles are also hard because of the deployment/integration model; you can't just throw something out there, have people try it out, and quickly iterate. All that also means it's expensive to build the software; it takes a decent number of people a really long time to build something that's even vaguely adequate for replacing their existing, 20-years-of-development COBOL mainframe system. Combined with the general niche market you're talking about, that means you need to get paid a lot for every customer, which also tends to preclude any sort of hosted service-based model; the number of customers is too low and the R & D costs are too high, so the economies of scale just aren't there. For whatever reason, businesses just tend to see services as cost centers to be minimized and value them differently than software purchases.
All that, though, means that 1) their existing systems suck and 2) hardly anyone smart is working on making them better, which is one reason why our company is able to be successful. So if you can round up a bunch of smart developers, some good business analyst-types who can delve into the corporate world and discover what they really need built, and some persistent sales people that can handle the agonizing, 12-24 month sales cycles, there's a whole lot of money to be made there. But it's a very, very different world than your standard web 2.0 app, and usability really doesn't factor much into the purchase decisions: their existing systems are so bad and so hard to maintain, the dev process is so brutal, and the competition is so poor that the most important thing is to build a system that works and is flexible in the right ways, and usability is more of a secondary concern. If there wasn't such a high barrier to entry, you might actually see products compete on usability instead of just on functionality.
If you don't want to go the full-on enterprise route, you can certainly have success chopping off parts of their business that are hugely common across business and industries, like salesforce.com, google apps, or wiki services. But I don't think that approach will really work for core systems that are highly industry-specific.
- jbrun 18y agoThanks for the great reply. I agree with pretty much everything.
- rickd 18y ago@keefer I happen to work for a big P+C insurance company, doing java integration work on just such an unwieldy set of apps, and I couldn't agree with you more. Development is nearly impossible due to pretty much everything you state in para 2 and 3. I just wanted to get this out there so people might be able to weigh in- you said "hardly anyone smart is working on making them better." First, let me say I completely agree. But what I was hoping for some feedback on is the WHY? I can say, from experience, my company doesn't even TRY to retain the "smart" people. We've been working on a huge, revolutionary change to our internal systems for almost 3 years now, but practically every "smart" person has been smart enough to jump ship. We've lost every senior dev and architecture person to other giant monolithic companies where they get paid to do EXACTLY the same thing. The funny part (to me anyway) is that nobody has even tried to retain those that are leaving. So we just continue to hemorrhage the great talent and the quality on the project goes down down down. I'm also pretty disappointed to see those people who were my friends going to companies that are just as bad as here- only because it's more money (so maybe they weren't that smart after all!) I propose that it's a combination of two factors: 1. smart people are bored doing this type of work and will leave when they perceive a better opportunity (I'm going to as well in the next few weeks). 2. Companies don't understand that getting the "rockstar" talent is important, don't know how to recognize it when they have it, and don't know how to keep it when they DO find it. I think this was touched on pretty well in a few previous posts (I'll try to find the links and stick them on here in a bit). You don't happen to work for a certain San Mateo based software company, do you?
- akeefer 18y agoIndeed, I work for the company you're thinking of (check out our development blog and you'll see me as the author of about 70% of the posts). Getting good people to work for a software company writing enterprise software is hard enough, due to factors I've mentioned elsewhere (it's low profile, you're building systems you yourself wouldn't need or use, the deployment model is rough). Getting good people to work doing software stuff at a non-software company is much harder, I'd say. Even if you had great working conditions and got to use innovative processes and technology to do things, which not many non-software companies do, you're still going to get hit the "talent attracts talent" problem. Talented people want to work with other talented people; otherwise it's a vicious cycle where the best people leave and cause the rest of the good people to leave, and new good people that come in don't want to stick around. The only real way to combat it is to start with a bunch of talented people and then keep your standards high; otherwise, the feedback loop spins you down towards mediocrity in a hurry.