16 ms·

Distributed exchanges have no weakness.

lalaland1125 9y ago
There are no distributed exchanges for exchanging cryptocurrency to/from fiat. (Unless you use localbitcoins, but that has other issues like being mugged for all your money).
- russdpale 9y ago
  Bisq does it.
  - gruez 9y ago
    bisq is closer to localbitcoins than it is to gdax. there's no central orderbook, and orders aren't executed in real time.
- d0lph 9y ago
  localbitcoins is a legit solution, I'm pretty sure we could resolve the issues around it. Mugging is an easy one, meet in public. A Tor based exchange is not distributed, but I think the way to go.
  - UncleMeat 9y ago
    I can't believe this. Develop a worldwide distributed network. List fast and cheap international transfers as a major selling point. Say that the most effective way of entering or leaving this network requires physically meeting somebody and exchanging cash. How is this not seen as an outrageous problem?
    - d0lph 9y ago
      > Say that the most effective way of entering or leaving this network requires physically meeting somebody and exchanging cash. Missed the part where I said that, perhaps you could point it out? We are discussing a world where bitcoins are illegal, obviously the solution will be a bit sketchy.
      - monkeyfoop 9y ago
        We don't need paper to trade. I get paid in Bitcoin Cash and same with my employees. Buy and sell goods for BCH. Why is there a need to convert to these papers, metals (, and cotton, etc)? Don't see why I should pay above a 1c fee to send money from point A to point B. Also do not understand why I must drive to an ATM where usually homeless people sleep.
        IntronExon 9y ago
        Also do not understand why I must drive to an ATM where usually homeless people sleep. Is this some kind of anonymous performance art? I have trouble believing that people like this really exist in a form that knows how to turn their computer on.
        monkeyfoop 9y ago
        ?
    - squeegee5 9y ago
      Why do you have to physically meet to exchange cash? Parties that trust each other can trade BTC for SWIFT or SEPA payment.
  - tromp 9y ago
    > Mugging is an easy one, meet in public. That doesn't quite solve the problem. Who is holding the cash when the "send" button is pressed? If it's the bitcoin seller, then he can run away instead of hitting "send". And if it's the buyer, then he can run away the moment it's pressed. Sure, you may shout "stop the thief", but they're experienced in making a quick get-away...
    - WingH 9y ago
      Is there such a thing 'escrow as a service' in face to face transactions?
      - bluesroo 9y ago
        Although I don't think it's official, I know some police departments encourage community members to do Craigslist-type sales in their parking lots. It's not escrow, but I think you'd have to be very bold to steal something in view of police surveillance.
      - hndamien 9y ago
        Yes. Localbitcoins does escrow.
      - ghthor 9y ago
        Localethereum provides escrow as a service, but for trading ether. I've had good success with them so far, but I haven't had a transaction yet that's had to go to dispute resolution.
    - d0lph 9y ago
      Reputation is currently how local bitcoins handles this. And also, the exchange could take drivers license info/do other verifications for e.g. what is currently done by coinbase.
  - root_axis 9y ago
    localbitcoins is an absurd solution. It takes a lot of time to coordinate and execute a meet and exchange, it's also risky, and worst of all it's ridiculously expensive in both directions. Localbitoins is only a legit solution in the "I have to pay a ransom ASAP and can't wait for KYC confirmation" scenario.
    - d0lph 9y ago
      I wouldn't expect it take longer than 30 minutes, risk is largely removed by meeting in public. If it were as bad as you say, people would not be using it.
      - root_axis 9y ago
        > I wouldn't expect it take longer than 30 minutes It doesn't matter what you expect, you cannot possibly predict the specific circumstances from region to region that could require someone to spend any length of time working on arrangements or traveling. What if you live outside of a city and have to spend 30 minutes driving alone? > risk is largely removed by meeting in public Demonstrably untrue. Meeting in public is obviously the absolute minimum precaution necessary when performing any kind of physical exchange, coming armed is even better, but that still doesn't stop people from being mugged in broad daylight. Even if we accept the "largely removed" risk of getting mugged, the reality is that most technologies pose 0 risk of mugging in practical use. There are also many other security risks, especially if you make a large transaction (e.g. you could be followed back to your home). > If it were as bad as you say, people would not be using it. Well, most people don't use it, otherwise the prices wouldn't be so high relative to online exchanges. LBC seriously sucks.
        d0lph 9y ago
        > you cannot possibly predict ... specific circumstances Predictions don't have to account for every edge case, my point is in the majority of cases the transaction should not take long. Longer drive times is the cost for living outside of the city, but I don't see why you couldn't just do the transaction when you do another trip(e.g. commuting). > Demonstrably untrue. ... most technologies pose 0 risk of mugging in practical use Escrow would be useful in this case. What technology has 0 risk for mugging? AFAIK you can force someone to perform some transaction at gun point. Followed back to your home is resolved by being aware of people following you, and frankly if you're transacting large sums of money, the types of attacks that are worth doing is immense. > Well, most people don't use it, Unimportant, it clearly has a userbase. Prices correspond with risk, doesn't seem unfair, and users are willing to pay for it.
astrodust 9y ago
Yes, distributed drug dealing networks have no problems with the law, and competition is never an issue.

There are no distributed exchanges for exchanging cryptocurrency to/from fiat. (Unless you use localbitcoins, but that has other issues like being mugged for all your money).

russdpale 9y ago
Bisq does it.
- gruez 9y ago
  bisq is closer to localbitcoins than it is to gdax. there's no central orderbook, and orders aren't executed in real time.
d0lph 9y ago
localbitcoins is a legit solution, I'm pretty sure we could resolve the issues around it. Mugging is an easy one, meet in public. A Tor based exchange is not distributed, but I think the way to go.
- UncleMeat 9y ago
  I can't believe this. Develop a worldwide distributed network. List fast and cheap international transfers as a major selling point. Say that the most effective way of entering or leaving this network requires physically meeting somebody and exchanging cash. How is this not seen as an outrageous problem?
  - d0lph 9y ago
    > Say that the most effective way of entering or leaving this network requires physically meeting somebody and exchanging cash. Missed the part where I said that, perhaps you could point it out? We are discussing a world where bitcoins are illegal, obviously the solution will be a bit sketchy.
    - monkeyfoop 9y ago
      We don't need paper to trade. I get paid in Bitcoin Cash and same with my employees. Buy and sell goods for BCH. Why is there a need to convert to these papers, metals (, and cotton, etc)? Don't see why I should pay above a 1c fee to send money from point A to point B. Also do not understand why I must drive to an ATM where usually homeless people sleep.
      - IntronExon 9y ago
        Also do not understand why I must drive to an ATM where usually homeless people sleep. Is this some kind of anonymous performance art? I have trouble believing that people like this really exist in a form that knows how to turn their computer on.
        monkeyfoop 9y ago
        ?
  - squeegee5 9y ago
    Why do you have to physically meet to exchange cash? Parties that trust each other can trade BTC for SWIFT or SEPA payment.
- tromp 9y ago
  > Mugging is an easy one, meet in public. That doesn't quite solve the problem. Who is holding the cash when the "send" button is pressed? If it's the bitcoin seller, then he can run away instead of hitting "send". And if it's the buyer, then he can run away the moment it's pressed. Sure, you may shout "stop the thief", but they're experienced in making a quick get-away...
  - WingH 9y ago
    Is there such a thing 'escrow as a service' in face to face transactions?
    - bluesroo 9y ago
      Although I don't think it's official, I know some police departments encourage community members to do Craigslist-type sales in their parking lots. It's not escrow, but I think you'd have to be very bold to steal something in view of police surveillance.
    - hndamien 9y ago
      Yes. Localbitcoins does escrow.
    - ghthor 9y ago
      Localethereum provides escrow as a service, but for trading ether. I've had good success with them so far, but I haven't had a transaction yet that's had to go to dispute resolution.
  - d0lph 9y ago
    Reputation is currently how local bitcoins handles this. And also, the exchange could take drivers license info/do other verifications for e.g. what is currently done by coinbase.
- root_axis 9y ago
  localbitcoins is an absurd solution. It takes a lot of time to coordinate and execute a meet and exchange, it's also risky, and worst of all it's ridiculously expensive in both directions. Localbitoins is only a legit solution in the "I have to pay a ransom ASAP and can't wait for KYC confirmation" scenario.
  - d0lph 9y ago
    I wouldn't expect it take longer than 30 minutes, risk is largely removed by meeting in public. If it were as bad as you say, people would not be using it.
    - root_axis 9y ago
      > I wouldn't expect it take longer than 30 minutes It doesn't matter what you expect, you cannot possibly predict the specific circumstances from region to region that could require someone to spend any length of time working on arrangements or traveling. What if you live outside of a city and have to spend 30 minutes driving alone? > risk is largely removed by meeting in public Demonstrably untrue. Meeting in public is obviously the absolute minimum precaution necessary when performing any kind of physical exchange, coming armed is even better, but that still doesn't stop people from being mugged in broad daylight. Even if we accept the "largely removed" risk of getting mugged, the reality is that most technologies pose 0 risk of mugging in practical use. There are also many other security risks, especially if you make a large transaction (e.g. you could be followed back to your home). > If it were as bad as you say, people would not be using it. Well, most people don't use it, otherwise the prices wouldn't be so high relative to online exchanges. LBC seriously sucks.
      - d0lph 9y ago
        > you cannot possibly predict ... specific circumstances Predictions don't have to account for every edge case, my point is in the majority of cases the transaction should not take long. Longer drive times is the cost for living outside of the city, but I don't see why you couldn't just do the transaction when you do another trip(e.g. commuting). > Demonstrably untrue. ... most technologies pose 0 risk of mugging in practical use Escrow would be useful in this case. What technology has 0 risk for mugging? AFAIK you can force someone to perform some transaction at gun point. Followed back to your home is resolved by being aware of people following you, and frankly if you're transacting large sums of money, the types of attacks that are worth doing is immense. > Well, most people don't use it, Unimportant, it clearly has a userbase. Prices correspond with risk, doesn't seem unfair, and users are willing to pay for it.

astrodust 9y ago

Yes, distributed drug dealing networks have no problems with the law, and competition is never an issue.