4 ms·

Do we really want billions of people who all talk the same, think the same, and have the same values? I don't see how that could possibly be a good thing. The w

by mbid 9y ago

Do we really want billions of people who all talk the same, think the same, and have the same values? I don't see how that could possibly be a good thing. The world is already bleeding ridiculous amounts of accumulated knowledge and wisdom. It may be true that the average person today knows and understands more about the world than the average person in the past, but we all know the same things today.

krapp 9y ago
Just because people share the same language, it doesn't mean they think the same, or share the same values. Many people around the world speak English, but they don't become culturally American or British because of it.
- mbid 9y ago
  Yes they do. Look at popular music around the world. It's all slight variations of American popular music. I don't think this is only because of the dominance of English, but the two phenomena are definitely symptoms of the same disease.
  - drharby 9y ago
    This is a massively flawed conclusions for so many reasons
  - Balero 9y ago
    Well yeah, looking at popular music will do that. There's a massive amount of advertising money to make it popular. Look at the less forced genres of music. Rap in the USA, Grime in the UK, similar but different. The UK has a very different type of indie (named from coming from an independent label) music. And Country is only popular in the USA. If you have a quick look on the surface it can be similar, but if you look deeper, where it matters, then the variation is there. That said, I do think having more languages is better, a more diversified ecosystem is more likely to survive. And from my point of view, it's more interesting to live in.
    - jejones3141 9y ago
      I'm kind of sorry to hear that about country music; some time ago I occasionally caught a country show on, I swear, BBC World Service, featuring singers clearly from the British Isles.
    - krapp 9y ago
      Also, styles of music aren't equivalent to the culture that produced them. American rock has its roots in Jazz and Bluegrass, which has its roots in the African slave diaspora. Japanese Visual Kei was influenced heavily by American glam rock bands. Does that mean Visual Kei merely an imitation of American culture, or that it expresses the same things that American rock does? Of course not. You can borrow the sound and the style but still make something culturally unique. K-Pop is probably more "Americanized" than Japanese pop, but it's still distinctly not American. I don't think anyone would confuse either Japanese or Korean culture for American culture, even though both incorporate Western aesthetics and English into their cultural expressions.
- ionised 9y ago
  > Just because people share the same language, it doesn't mean they think the same Actually it kind of does of does; https://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/11/multilingualism https://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/11/multilingua... https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/speaking-second-language-may-change-how-you-see-world https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/speaking-second-lang... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/life-bilingual/201111/change-language-change-personality https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/life-bilingual/201111/c... https://www.edge.org/conversation/lera_boroditsky-how-does-our-language-shape-the-way-we-think https://www.edge.org/conversation/lera_boroditsky-how-does-o... At the very least having multiple languages ensures a diversity of thinking.
- ocschwar 9y ago
  I used to think that. Then an Englishman asked for my John Hancock.
  - _emacsomancer_ 9y ago
    And an American went missing.
- sotojuan 9y ago
  Toute l’expérience d’un individu est construit sur le plan de son langage. [An individual’s experience is built entirely in terms of his language.]
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Is it?
    - mbid 9y ago
      Could your language affect your ability to save? https://www.ted.com/talks/keith_chen_could_your_language_affect_your_ability_to_save_money https://www.ted.com/talks/keith_chen_could_your_language_aff...
  - sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
    Perhaps, but y=x+1 and u=v+1 are the same, even if they use different terms. Likewise, y=x+1 !== y=x-1, even though they use the same terms. It's really unclear to me that much harm will be done if everyone speaks the same language, and it's clear to me that there will be great benefits. That's an easy position for me to take as a primary speaker of the world's dominant language. It's also no skin off my back if other language groups wish to continue maintaining their own languages. But I guess that those which aren't strong enough will fade over the centuries, as many already did in the past.
    - mbid 9y ago
      Not all knowledge is logic or maths.
      - sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
        It's an analogy.
        BrandonM 9y ago
        That's just not how language works. Gödel, Escher, Bach really hammered this home for me. Many ideas are easier to express in one language or another, to the point that they are practically inexpressible in another language. This is even true in math. Based on the set of axioms you allow, you can prove certain facts. A math with different axioms may have completely different theorems, and some observable real world behavior can be better modeled under one set of axioms than another. Language could be described as a math for personal expression and everyday life, and each language has its own axioms and theorems.

by mbid 9y ago

krapp 9y ago

Just because people share the same language, it doesn't mean they think the same, or share the same values. Many people around the world speak English, but they don't become culturally American or British because of it.

mbid 9y ago
Yes they do. Look at popular music around the world. It's all slight variations of American popular music. I don't think this is only because of the dominance of English, but the two phenomena are definitely symptoms of the same disease.
- drharby 9y ago
  This is a massively flawed conclusions for so many reasons
- Balero 9y ago
  Well yeah, looking at popular music will do that. There's a massive amount of advertising money to make it popular. Look at the less forced genres of music. Rap in the USA, Grime in the UK, similar but different. The UK has a very different type of indie (named from coming from an independent label) music. And Country is only popular in the USA. If you have a quick look on the surface it can be similar, but if you look deeper, where it matters, then the variation is there. That said, I do think having more languages is better, a more diversified ecosystem is more likely to survive. And from my point of view, it's more interesting to live in.
  - jejones3141 9y ago
    I'm kind of sorry to hear that about country music; some time ago I occasionally caught a country show on, I swear, BBC World Service, featuring singers clearly from the British Isles.
  - krapp 9y ago
    Also, styles of music aren't equivalent to the culture that produced them. American rock has its roots in Jazz and Bluegrass, which has its roots in the African slave diaspora. Japanese Visual Kei was influenced heavily by American glam rock bands. Does that mean Visual Kei merely an imitation of American culture, or that it expresses the same things that American rock does? Of course not. You can borrow the sound and the style but still make something culturally unique. K-Pop is probably more "Americanized" than Japanese pop, but it's still distinctly not American. I don't think anyone would confuse either Japanese or Korean culture for American culture, even though both incorporate Western aesthetics and English into their cultural expressions.
ionised 9y ago
> Just because people share the same language, it doesn't mean they think the same Actually it kind of does of does; https://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/11/multilingualism https://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/11/multilingua... https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/speaking-second-language-may-change-how-you-see-world https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/speaking-second-lang... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/life-bilingual/201111/change-language-change-personality https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/life-bilingual/201111/c... https://www.edge.org/conversation/lera_boroditsky-how-does-our-language-shape-the-way-we-think https://www.edge.org/conversation/lera_boroditsky-how-does-o... At the very least having multiple languages ensures a diversity of thinking.
ocschwar 9y ago
I used to think that. Then an Englishman asked for my John Hancock.
- _emacsomancer_ 9y ago
  And an American went missing.
sotojuan 9y ago
Toute l’expérience d’un individu est construit sur le plan de son langage. [An individual’s experience is built entirely in terms of his language.]
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Is it?
  - mbid 9y ago
    Could your language affect your ability to save? https://www.ted.com/talks/keith_chen_could_your_language_affect_your_ability_to_save_money https://www.ted.com/talks/keith_chen_could_your_language_aff...
- sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
  Perhaps, but y=x+1 and u=v+1 are the same, even if they use different terms. Likewise, y=x+1 !== y=x-1, even though they use the same terms. It's really unclear to me that much harm will be done if everyone speaks the same language, and it's clear to me that there will be great benefits. That's an easy position for me to take as a primary speaker of the world's dominant language. It's also no skin off my back if other language groups wish to continue maintaining their own languages. But I guess that those which aren't strong enough will fade over the centuries, as many already did in the past.
  - mbid 9y ago
    Not all knowledge is logic or maths.
    - sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
      It's an analogy.
      - BrandonM 9y ago
        That's just not how language works. Gödel, Escher, Bach really hammered this home for me. Many ideas are easier to express in one language or another, to the point that they are practically inexpressible in another language. This is even true in math. Based on the set of axioms you allow, you can prove certain facts. A math with different axioms may have completely different theorems, and some observable real world behavior can be better modeled under one set of axioms than another. Language could be described as a math for personal expression and everyday life, and each language has its own axioms and theorems.