5 ms·

Johns Hopkins study suggests medical errors are 3rd-leading cause of death in US

46 points by villaaston1 9y ago

adamnemecek 9y ago
Ive heard this statistic before and it's not all that surprising. One of my "mental models" is that humans tend to be pretty bad at things.
Alex3917 9y ago
IIRC this is only looking at hospitals, and it’s likely the second if you include outpatient clinics, nursing homes, etc. Excessive medical care is why the upper middle class have longer life expectancies than the super wealthy.
slg 9y ago
Any statistic can lie, but this one is even more susceptible considering that vague definition of what constitutes a "medical error". I remember looking at this study when it was first published (there should be a 2016 in the title by the way) and it basically attributed any action by a doctor that resulted in a negative outcome as a medical error. For example, that could include a doctor prescribing a treatment that is successful for 99.9999% of patients, but if it fails for that one patient it would be an error.
- manjushri 9y ago
  That seems like a reasonable definition, not a lie. >could include a doctor prescribing a treatment that is successful for 99.9999% of patients Sure it could, but that is an edge case that would account for a negligible number of deaths in relation to the sum total.
  - throwaway1909 9y ago
    Meds aren't always so black and white. A treatment or drug may be successful in 70% of patients (or even 10%), and still properly prescribed when the potential harms outweigh the benefit.
    - manjushri 9y ago
      Indeed. However, there are massive monetary incentives and influences to perscribe treatment even though the risk/benefit ratio may not be in the patient's favor.
      - throwaway1909 9y ago
        Whoa there. Pretty impressive accusation as you're describing malpractice. Why don't you cite a source or two?
        manjushri 9y ago
        Doctor who ordered unnecessary heart surgery and risky tests jailed for 20 years Dr Harry Persaud of Ohio made more than $7m from health insurance fraud while abusing patients’ ‘sacred trust’, says FBI https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/doctor-who-ordered-unnecessary-heart-surgery-and-risky-tests-jailed-for-20-years https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/doctor-who-o... Moreland Hills doctors performed unnecessary tests, illegally prescribed drugs, feds say http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/01/moreland_hills_doctors_perform.html http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/01/mor... The $395 billion US pharmaceutical industry spent $5.2 billion on advertising prescription drugs directly to consumers in 2015 Every $1.00 spent advertising prescription drugs is estimated to increase their retail sales by $4.20 https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org Doctors received more than $46 million from drug companies marketing opioids https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/09/study-doctors-received-more-than-46-million-from-drug-companies-marketing-opioids/?utm_term=.704b6be50c2e https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/0...
  - slg 9y ago
    You are focusing on the admittedly extreme outlier example I used. Let me try a different example. The 5 year survival rate for lung cancer is roughly 50%. The other 50% were likely given some treatment that was hoped to be effective but still resulted in death. Are those failures to successfully treat the patient a medical error?
secstate 9y ago
Gonna post before reading (mistake alert), but was just reading The Patient's Playbook by Leslie Michelson and it begins by talking about what a clustercuss the US healthcare system is. You'd think your primary care physician would know what medications you are on, and what specialists you'd seen, but they don't work like that unless you laboriously tell them everything you received when they weren't staring at you. It's inefficient to say the least. And it's borderline negligent too.
bawana 9y ago
clickbait.
collyw 9y ago
Its not mentioned in the article but almost all the doctors I have spoken to seem to have needed to do ridiculous shifts as junior doctors straight out of university. You are doing a highly skilled job under extreme conditions. Most say they get used to it, but still, it doesn't sound like the best idea.

46 points by villaaston1 9y ago

Ive heard this statistic before and it's not all that surprising. One of my "mental models" is that humans tend to be pretty bad at things.

Alex3917 9y ago

IIRC this is only looking at hospitals, and it’s likely the second if you include outpatient clinics, nursing homes, etc. Excessive medical care is why the upper middle class have longer life expectancies than the super wealthy.

slg 9y ago

Any statistic can lie, but this one is even more susceptible considering that vague definition of what constitutes a "medical error". I remember looking at this study when it was first published (there should be a 2016 in the title by the way) and it basically attributed any action by a doctor that resulted in a negative outcome as a medical error. For example, that could include a doctor prescribing a treatment that is successful for 99.9999% of patients, but if it fails for that one patient it would be an error.

manjushri 9y ago
That seems like a reasonable definition, not a lie. >could include a doctor prescribing a treatment that is successful for 99.9999% of patients Sure it could, but that is an edge case that would account for a negligible number of deaths in relation to the sum total.
- throwaway1909 9y ago
  Meds aren't always so black and white. A treatment or drug may be successful in 70% of patients (or even 10%), and still properly prescribed when the potential harms outweigh the benefit.
  - manjushri 9y ago
    Indeed. However, there are massive monetary incentives and influences to perscribe treatment even though the risk/benefit ratio may not be in the patient's favor.
    - throwaway1909 9y ago
      Whoa there. Pretty impressive accusation as you're describing malpractice. Why don't you cite a source or two?
      - manjushri 9y ago
        Doctor who ordered unnecessary heart surgery and risky tests jailed for 20 years Dr Harry Persaud of Ohio made more than $7m from health insurance fraud while abusing patients’ ‘sacred trust’, says FBI https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/doctor-who-ordered-unnecessary-heart-surgery-and-risky-tests-jailed-for-20-years https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/doctor-who-o... Moreland Hills doctors performed unnecessary tests, illegally prescribed drugs, feds say http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/01/moreland_hills_doctors_perform.html http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2018/01/mor... The $395 billion US pharmaceutical industry spent $5.2 billion on advertising prescription drugs directly to consumers in 2015 Every $1.00 spent advertising prescription drugs is estimated to increase their retail sales by $4.20 https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org Doctors received more than $46 million from drug companies marketing opioids https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/09/study-doctors-received-more-than-46-million-from-drug-companies-marketing-opioids/?utm_term=.704b6be50c2e https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/0...
- slg 9y ago
  You are focusing on the admittedly extreme outlier example I used. Let me try a different example. The 5 year survival rate for lung cancer is roughly 50%. The other 50% were likely given some treatment that was hoped to be effective but still resulted in death. Are those failures to successfully treat the patient a medical error?

secstate 9y ago

Gonna post before reading (mistake alert), but was just reading The Patient's Playbook by Leslie Michelson and it begins by talking about what a clustercuss the US healthcare system is. You'd think your primary care physician would know what medications you are on, and what specialists you'd seen, but they don't work like that unless you laboriously tell them everything you received when they weren't staring at you. It's inefficient to say the least. And it's borderline negligent too.

bawana 9y ago

clickbait.

collyw 9y ago

Its not mentioned in the article but almost all the doctors I have spoken to seem to have needed to do ridiculous shifts as junior doctors straight out of university. You are doing a highly skilled job under extreme conditions. Most say they get used to it, but still, it doesn't sound like the best idea.