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Companies should clearly articulate how diversity programs work. It seems like people don't understand that diversity outreach programs don't create an advantag

Companies should clearly articulate how diversity programs work. It seems like people don't understand that diversity outreach programs don't create an advantage for minorities, instead they level the playing field as once closed pipelines get opened/discovered. I fear that all this recent news about diversity and Google will create an environment where perfectly qualified non Asian minorities won't feel welcomed or will unfairly have their competency questioned.

viridian 9y ago
Isn't this allegation an exact counterpoint to what you are saying? Throwing out the resumes of everyone who isn't hispanic, black, or female seems to be creating an advantage.
- southphillyman 9y ago
  This specific allegation seems like "reverse discrimination" sure. But as of right now it's just a one sided allegation presented in a lawsuit. I'll be interested in seeing what the evidence bears out. I have intimate knowledge of the workings of diversity programs at some of the FAANG and big 4 consultancy companies and none of them involve purging white male applicants. Do postmortems occur when the diversity goals aren't met? Well sure, it IS a targeted diversity program after all. Sourcing initiatives have no bearing on whether a candidate meets a manager's hiring bar or not.
throwaway1584 9y ago
Almost anyone working in tech has seen race and gender discrimination in favor of women and minorities at this point. I have personally experienced it. If we were to apply affirmative action then class would be a better differentiator than race or gender. As it stands now an upper-middle-class Ivy League educated person of the right identities will receive affirmative action over a man that worked his way up from a poor neighborhood in Bangalore. I fail to see how that is just.
- southphillyman 9y ago
  Well every one except for me apparently. I've literally never worked with a (non-white) hispanic or black engineer before, so I have no personal anecdotes there. Female engineers are rare but I have worked with some and they mostly have been good (only 1 exception ime). The irony in all this hoopla is that literally every engineer who has been so bad that I wondered how the heck they made it past the interview stage has been......drumroll ... white or asian male. That's simply because they are over represented in the field obviously. But this argument that there are floods of under qualified minorities and women engineers getting jobs is hilarious.
  - throwaway1584 9y ago
    > The irony in all this hoopla is that literally every engineer who has been so bad that I wondered how the heck they made it past the interview stage has been......drumroll ... white or asian male. I work with a lot of engineers of all backgrounds, and no group has been without bad apples. > But this argument that there are floods of under qualified minorities and women engineers getting jobs is hilarious. You are misrepresenting the argument. The argument is that there is explicit discrimination in the hiring and promotion process which comes at the cost of equal opportunity. In addition to this the people that experience this or feel this is unfair say they have experienced illegal retaliation when bringing this up. I personally experienced such retaliation.
    - southphillyman 9y ago
      >I work with a lot of engineers of all backgrounds, and no group has been without bad apples. Indeed. So it's only natural that the demographic that represents the vast majority of the candidate pool is also going to represent the vast majority of false positives. Where is all the outrage over white and asian males who can't code their way out of a wet paper bag yet some how keep getting jobs? Hiring managers literally need to employ silly openers like fizzbuzz because these unqualified candidates keep getting opportunities presented to them by recruiters! >The argument is that there is explicit discrimination in the hiring and promotion process which comes at the cost of equal opportunity. The numbers don't bear this out though. Companies don't purposely hire unqualified candidates for the sake of diversity. Is it equal opportunity when referrals get interviewed, how about the graduates who come from a handful of universities? Recruiting pipelines are just that, restricted channels to a specific segment of candidates.

viridian 9y ago

Isn't this allegation an exact counterpoint to what you are saying? Throwing out the resumes of everyone who isn't hispanic, black, or female seems to be creating an advantage.

southphillyman 9y ago
This specific allegation seems like "reverse discrimination" sure. But as of right now it's just a one sided allegation presented in a lawsuit. I'll be interested in seeing what the evidence bears out. I have intimate knowledge of the workings of diversity programs at some of the FAANG and big 4 consultancy companies and none of them involve purging white male applicants. Do postmortems occur when the diversity goals aren't met? Well sure, it IS a targeted diversity program after all. Sourcing initiatives have no bearing on whether a candidate meets a manager's hiring bar or not.

throwaway1584 9y ago

Almost anyone working in tech has seen race and gender discrimination in favor of women and minorities at this point. I have personally experienced it. If we were to apply affirmative action then class would be a better differentiator than race or gender. As it stands now an upper-middle-class Ivy League educated person of the right identities will receive affirmative action over a man that worked his way up from a poor neighborhood in Bangalore. I fail to see how that is just.

southphillyman 9y ago
Well every one except for me apparently. I've literally never worked with a (non-white) hispanic or black engineer before, so I have no personal anecdotes there. Female engineers are rare but I have worked with some and they mostly have been good (only 1 exception ime). The irony in all this hoopla is that literally every engineer who has been so bad that I wondered how the heck they made it past the interview stage has been......drumroll ... white or asian male. That's simply because they are over represented in the field obviously. But this argument that there are floods of under qualified minorities and women engineers getting jobs is hilarious.
- throwaway1584 9y ago
  > The irony in all this hoopla is that literally every engineer who has been so bad that I wondered how the heck they made it past the interview stage has been......drumroll ... white or asian male. I work with a lot of engineers of all backgrounds, and no group has been without bad apples. > But this argument that there are floods of under qualified minorities and women engineers getting jobs is hilarious. You are misrepresenting the argument. The argument is that there is explicit discrimination in the hiring and promotion process which comes at the cost of equal opportunity. In addition to this the people that experience this or feel this is unfair say they have experienced illegal retaliation when bringing this up. I personally experienced such retaliation.
  - southphillyman 9y ago
    >I work with a lot of engineers of all backgrounds, and no group has been without bad apples. Indeed. So it's only natural that the demographic that represents the vast majority of the candidate pool is also going to represent the vast majority of false positives. Where is all the outrage over white and asian males who can't code their way out of a wet paper bag yet some how keep getting jobs? Hiring managers literally need to employ silly openers like fizzbuzz because these unqualified candidates keep getting opportunities presented to them by recruiters! >The argument is that there is explicit discrimination in the hiring and promotion process which comes at the cost of equal opportunity. The numbers don't bear this out though. Companies don't purposely hire unqualified candidates for the sake of diversity. Is it equal opportunity when referrals get interviewed, how about the graduates who come from a handful of universities? Recruiting pipelines are just that, restricted channels to a specific segment of candidates.