7 ms·
It sounds like it was one manager. Is that all you need to blacklist an entire company?
by jsmeaton 9y ago
It sounds like it was one manager. Is that all you need to blacklist an entire company?
- bbarn 9y agoThat happens every day, in every industry. That's why selecting managers is so important.
- fwdpropaganda 9y agoTo be fair, from the outside it is often hard to tell what is one manager and what is company culture.
- organsnyder 9y agoFor any organization this size, assume that there is a fair amount of variance from one division to another.
- nugi 9y agoI hold all organizations responsible for their own actions, reguardless of size. Too big to fail is a poor concept, logically, ethically.
- boomboomsubban 9y agoThis isn't too big to fail, it's "a bad egg doesn't ruin the bunch." Whether that's the case here is arguable, but no one is saying they aren't responsible for their actions.
- nugi 9y agoIs 'allowing for variance' up to and including racism and sexisism in hiring? Because it seems like you are giving them a pass, because there are many hiring managers.
- organsnyder 9y agoI'm not saying that bad behavior should be dismissed. But I am saying that the larger the organization, the more potential there is for there to be a bad actor that doesn't match the overall organization's culture. If the recruiter's accusation is indeed true, then we should ask questions about whether it is endemic to the entire organization. Though given the company's size—especially its growth through acquisitions (such as YouTube)—it's likely that the behavior is constrained to a single manager or department.
- edanm 9y agoIf someone who worked for Walmart became a murderer, would you condemn all of Walmart as murderers? Promoting a culture of murder? If that's too far removed from the actual job for you, how about if someone at Walmart acted in a sexist way in an interview. Would you condemn all of Walmart? Would you automatically assume there is a culture of sexism? Or would you at least entertain the possibility that Walmart employs thousands of managers, so it's not crazy to imagine that some of them might sometimes act in sexist ways, even without such a corporate culture? You need more than a few instances to prove a claim of "this must be a cultural thing", IMO.
- nugi 9y agoThis is a known issue for google management, and in this case 2 managers had the same failing. It clearly seems systemic, and you seem like astroturfing for yur opinion of google.
- throwaway005 9y agoIf someone who worked for FooCorp raped someone else who worked at FooCorp, then FooCorp fired the person who was raped and kept the rapist, then I'd stay very very clear of FooCorp.
- HelloNurse 9y agoA Walmart shop could be an isolated environment where a bad person can prosper despite a generally contrary company culture, but it isn't an appropriate comparison for this case: important HR managers like this Alogna aren't many, even in a large company, and the higher level management who kept him and fired the recruiter is an even smaller part of Google. They must be assumed to be representative of the whole company.
- novembermike 9y agoThe saying is "one bad apple ruins the bunch".
- gaius 9y agoNeither eggs nor apples come in bunches!
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- tyingq 9y agoThe complaint is pretty detailed and compelling. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4391847-18-CIV-00442.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4391847-18-CIV-00442...
- PeterisP 9y agoIt's not hard - if in this escalation the company would have facepalmed and fired the manager, than that would be the case of one weird manager; but if the company fires the recruiter and keeps the manager, then obviously that's the company culture they intentionally want to have.
- ng12 9y agoIf he was fired over it, absolutely.
- cm2187 9y agoWell apparently the company stands behind the decision of its manager.
- whatyoucantsay 9y agoThis is a good point. There's a lot of negative press and truly appalling allegations swirling about Google, but it's near impossible to get an accurate idea of extent or even the truth of the situation from the outside. Based on Reddit stories for a while, it seemed that even settin foot in the US was a near guarantee one would then be tasered, have their money taken by police officers, and then detained by agents from an unknown 3-letter agency and shipped to Guantanamo. It's possible, though we have no way of knowing, that what's in this story is a case of a lone manager with an axe to grind. It's also possible that the attitude is pervasive. It's likely best to withhold judgement and keep asking questions.
- Unkechaug 9y agoI doubt this single incident alone is the reason, but maybe the catalyst. Google and its unhealthy lust for diversity has been an increasingly frequent topic. Hell, someone got fired for posting an anti diversity rant last year. While his arguments were weak or flat out wrong, it's clear that Google is making a point to single out underrepresented minorities to the detriment of others who may actually be better candidates.
- kapauldo 9y agoDiversity is a noble goal not a corrupt one.
- DanHulton 9y agoI mean, if it's the same memo in thinking of, it wasn't a "diversity memo" he was fired over, it was a manifesto that has been reviewed and agreed on as sufficient cause for his dismissal several times now. In it, he argued that women were essentially worse at logical tasks than men, and further that this made them poor engineers. That's not a diversity memo, that's a sexist screed.
- chronic193 9y agoJust because it is sexist doesn't mean you can't say it. It is not illegal, nor should it be, to be sexist or racist. Women underperform men in college computer science courses. Hell, you could generalize this to all engineering. Am I sexist? Maybe. Am I speaking the truth, yes. Now if you don't want to believe raw data, that's your choice.
- emsy 9y agoAgreed on by whom? Did you even read the memo yourself?
- ofirg 9y agoThat is not what the memo said. did you not read it or is this what you think the writer meant even if he did not actually write that but you have some kind of mind reading abilities?
- chippy 9y agohttps://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4391847-18-CIV-00442.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4391847-18-CIV-00442... It appears it was more than one. Possibly it was two.
- humanrebar 9y agoHow a company deals with a bad manager is very important. Assuming you believe the accusations (1), the fact that Google wasn't immediately firing people and settling with the plaintiff is worse than the original complaint. (1) A big if. I haven't seen any hard evidence yet.
- notahacker 9y agoI imagine that not believing the accusations (or believing other accusations - true or not - made by the manager against the plaintiff) play a large role in Google not rushing to settle. They'd be mad not to regardless of their politics if the course of events happened exactly as described.
- johngalt 9y agoPer the complaint it appears to be four managers in a row across two levels of management. With HR getting involved haphazardly at best. Keep in mind that this is only one side of the story. There is little evidence to support the complaint. It's too early to draw conclusions.
- kerng 9y agoWhere there is smoke, there might be fire. Its not unlikeley related to KPIs set by high managment (given the news around Google in the past). And further down the food chain managers want to look good and do these things.