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> In April of 2017, Google’s Technology Staffing Management team was instructed by Alogna to immediately cancel all Level 3 (0-5 years experience) software engin
by 2aa07e2 9y ago
> In April of 2017, Google’s Technology Staffing Management team was instructed by Alogna to immediately cancel all Level 3 (0-5 years experience) software engineering interviews with every single applicant who was not either female, Black, or Hispanic and to purge entirely any applications by non-diverse employees from the hiring pipeline. Plaintiff refused to comply with this request.
Good for him. Google is now excluded from the "dream" companies I'd want to work for.
- icc97 9y agoDo you seriously think that Google is going to stop hiring white men? What is claimed sounds like a completely crass method. Whether you like Google or not they typically do things in a fairly data driven method even with their hiring. It is also blatant discrimination that as others claim would be fairly easy to prove in court. This would be stupid. For Google to be both crass and stupid seems unlikely.
- bitL 9y agoDo you really want to work for a company where world-class work might not be that important for your career progress? Do you think a super talented high-achieving person with wrong gender/race should be expected to sacrifice their achievements for "common good" as defined by internal diversity officers? Do you think those diversity hires would be happy staying at junior positions and not pushing beyond their capabilities by non-merit related ways, not exploiting prevailing winds? I think second world countries would love to talk to you about how this turned out. Obviously, interviews aren't that great indicator of success, especially in a company that tries to hire the best according to their criteria, so the overall medium-term effect might be small, but they do risk losing those people that could knock them out of the ring in the future, and making those people forever negative towards them. But maybe that's already taken into account and weighted in their internal decision tooling and they are fine with that.
- izacus 9y agoGoogle does not look at race, gender or ethnicity when evaluating performance. You should figure that from the other whiny post here.
- jccalhoun 9y ago"Do you really want to work for a company where world-class work might not be that important for your career progress?" I think pretty much every company has employees who would say that there are definitely people who get promotions and bonuses for reasons that are not related to "world-class" work.
- bitL 9y agoYeah, which is sad to observe with increasing probability in what should be one of our industry's flagship. It's double sad as there is literally nowhere else to go as a regular employee with high ideals; our industry could have done better.
- slap_shot 9y agoWhere does OP every say that he thinks Google is going to stop hiring white men? There's an obvious case of discrimination and OP said he no longer views Google as a dream job.
- linkmotif 9y ago> Do you seriously think that Google is going to stop hiring white men? What kind of question is that? Maybe you should rethink it. Why would being discriminated against like this make me feel better if maybe some other white man gets a job? What are we fungible?
- darepublic 9y agoThey will stop hiring level 3 engineer who are Asian and white according to this allegation. The discrimination against asians matters to me even if you're perfectly happy with it in your social justice utopia that discriminates against me.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Cthulhu_ 9y agoMeaning the "asian and white" people will become more entrenched in the (I assume) higher levels, with minorities doing the junior work. Or am I missing the point?
- Slansitartop 9y agoOr the pipeline's shut off to access those roles. It really depends on how much hiring is done at that level vs. internal promotion to them.
- jsmeaton 9y agoIt sounds like it was one manager. Is that all you need to blacklist an entire company?
- bbarn 9y agoThat happens every day, in every industry. That's why selecting managers is so important.
- fwdpropaganda 9y agoTo be fair, from the outside it is often hard to tell what is one manager and what is company culture.
- organsnyder 9y agoFor any organization this size, assume that there is a fair amount of variance from one division to another.
- nugi 9y agoI hold all organizations responsible for their own actions, reguardless of size. Too big to fail is a poor concept, logically, ethically.
- boomboomsubban 9y agoThis isn't too big to fail, it's "a bad egg doesn't ruin the bunch." Whether that's the case here is arguable, but no one is saying they aren't responsible for their actions.
- nugi 9y agoIs 'allowing for variance' up to and including racism and sexisism in hiring? Because it seems like you are giving them a pass, because there are many hiring managers.
- JPKab 9y agoI'm surprised that people still view Google as a cool place to work. It seems to me that ship sailed years ago. They are a giant corporation reliant on one monopoly product to fund everything else. Employees usually are stuck with some tiny part of a component in a system. The office perks are nice, but are you really going to do interesting work there anymore?
- dmihal 9y agoThe free food & other perks will keep their "cool" image going for a while. But it's certainly dipping.
- hodgesrm 9y agoGoogle has produced some amazing software and continues to do so. I work with Kubernetes and Angular 2, both of which originated there. The quality of design, implementation, and documentation is a model for accomplishment in computer science. As an engineer it's hard not to envy the folks that got to work on those projects. So...I think it really depends where you work. That's true of all big companies as far as I can tell.
- jameskegel 9y agoKubernetes is the product I’d mention, if I were making this comparison.
- rvshchwl 9y agoGoogle is the first big company that I actually rejected after receiving an offer from them. I had a really bad experience, and just felt like the company was looking for things I am much more qualified from. I was interviewed by engineers who were all just recent college grads, no managers, tech leads, or anyone I felt were probably more qualified to interview me. The environment felt toxic. Most people I talked to looked unclean, like they just got out of bed to work. Had red eyes like they were tired. And the workplace was just not as clean as I was hoping. There were a set of dirty plates in the conference room I was interviewed in, and no one bothered to remove them the entire time. From people I have talked to, my experience was pretty unique, and most people have had good interviews there. But even as an outlier, I don't like the chance of it being exactly like my experience. Things like this really put stuff in perspective for me though. I still went through the entire process, but in the end, rejected the offer. I wouldn't want to work in an environment like Google's, it feels toxic, and engineers feel like they are overworking themselves to death.
- SteveCoast 9y agoMaybe you failed the test that you were supposed to remove the plates :-O
- chrisper 9y agoIt's not his job to remove the plates.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- rounce 9y agoInterview task: Implement dirty plate & cutlery classifier.
- Slansitartop 9y agoThat's the joke.
- 9y ago
- jmull 9y agoI'd just caution you not to buy in too much to the narrative presented by one side of a law suit. You'll pretty much never see a more one-sided presentation of a situation. It may bear out or it may not.
- nailer 9y agoUnless the screenshots are faked, Google has racist/illegal hiring practices. There's no narrative here: just Alogna's own words being published publically.
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoBear in mind though, the lawsuit is a one-sided presentation held up against millions of dollars of PR investment in publishing an image about how great it is to work there. Yeah, reality probably falls somewhere in the middle, but the default narrative is already slanted incredibly far the other direction.
- LordKano 9y agoAs a black IT professional, I tend to leave the demographic information blank on applications because I want to avoid the racial implications of my application. I don't know if I'll be dismissed because I'm black and I don't want to be an affirmative action hire either. I made it to the 3rd round of interviews with Google back in 2012. Maybe if I had told them I was black, I would have gotten the job.
- nojvek 9y agoOh man! The irony of this. Diversity hiring doesn’t help anyone. What if you had gotten the job and your peers thought you were only there because of being Black. They don’t take your technical arguments and code seriously?
- LordKano 9y agoI can't help what other people think. I know my craft and I'm good at what I do. Code that I wrote as an intern was in use for many years (to the best of my knowledge, it still is) at a former employer.
- fhood 9y agoIf including your race gives you a leg up, then I think you should do it. I saw a whole lot of casual racism when I was in college, and if that was indicative of the experience of others then you don't owe the rest of us shit.
- soundwave106 9y agoThe ultimate goal from my perspective should be to eliminate implied tribal biases, rather than band-aid them. There's a fair bit of negatives with trying to force the issue with quotas, in my opinion -- by hiring on grounds other than merit, it might even perpetuate the bias. Those hired might for instance be thought of as "second class hires" within the company from the get go. So despite the casual racism that unfortunately exists, I can see why the poster leaves his or her race off applications. In other fields, hiring can probably be done by ways that try to heavily reduce bias, and get similar increases in diversity without, from what I can see, the negatives of quotas. Some orchestras for instance have used "blind auditions" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_audition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_audition) for quite some time, with a noticeable increase in diversity as a result. I see in the Wiki that some tech companies are experimenting with this approach. I'd strongly prefer this sort of system over what Google has (if the details described in the lawsuit end up being true).