6 ms·

In a funny way, I cannot but draw a parallel between the bitcoin folks and 'modern' art folks: Very little intrinsic value; mass produced but still the produce

In a funny way, I cannot but draw a parallel between the bitcoin folks and 'modern' art folks: Very little intrinsic value; mass produced but still the producers and consumers feel like they are part of some niche (and somehow the rest of the world doesn't 'get them'). And dare I say, an easy way to launder dirty money out. I just don't get why either of those two things deserve any attention other than it's just another way that money exchanges hands.

hndamien 9y ago
The main difference is that this is literally all Bitcoin is intended for - “just another way that money exchanges hands.”
unknown_apostle 9y ago
True. Things like gold, bitcoin, stamp collections, art, expensive cars etc serve a similar function: the function of "saving", as opposed to "investing". With "saving" I mean storing some excess purchasing power in something that doesn't have a counterparty and doesn't generate income, but also can't be duplicated easily so is likely to at least not loose a lot of value. Of course, all these saving devices have different properties. Gold and bitcoin are liquid, whereas art is extremely illiquid. Gold and bitcoins are egalitarian, in the sense that a poor man buying gold gets the same thing as a rich man buying gold. Art is elitist and susceptible to huge winner-takes-all effects. All are susceptible to stealing, but cryptocurrencies are susceptible to total failure because of their complexity (bugs, mathematical weakness, ...)
- baldfat 9y ago
  Art = Tax Haven. Long time ago in my teens I worked in art outside of NYC and my friend's whole business was a Art Moving Company. Art isn't about art but to a very small number of people. I can't tell you how many times people would say that they don't even like the art they own. Art is stored away where no one is able to see it, and all for tax havens. You can put your art into storage where the art sits and the owner doesn't have to pay taxes on their purchases. 2013 - https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21590353-ever-more-wealth-being-parked-fancy-storage-facilities-some-customers-they-are https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21590353-ever-more-w... Same reason why the number one US Currency note in circulation is the $100 bill. In 2012 77% of all US currency was $100 bills! Can't tax cash hidden away. https://qz.com/29561/why-the-share-of-100-bills-in-circulation-has-been-going-up-for-over-40-years/ https://qz.com/29561/why-the-share-of-100-bills-in-circulati...
  - Pulcinella 9y ago
    Planet Money #823 talks about this. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/09/584555705/episode-823-planet-monet https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/09/584555705/epis...
    - miralabs 9y ago
      I was just about to post this. I really love planet money. I regularly listen to their podcast as part of my regular runs and this really was a very interesting new information for me
M_Bakhtiari 9y ago
It even has a notion of proof of work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitated_Mass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitated_Mass The only thing that thing accomplishes is proving that a contractor had moved a rock from A to B, about as useful as figuring out how to get a certain number of zeroes in a hash.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  Let me guess, you also don't like Yves Klein?
  - M_Bakhtiari 9y ago
    I really don't mind the goofballs, it's their enablers, the modern art dealers, critics and collectors, that I have a problem with. I even like some of the things that came out of the movement from an aesthetic point of view, for example much of the stuff that came out of pre-PC IBM. But I don't consider it to have much artistic merit, if any at all.
- B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago
  Modern art is rather like bitcoin - mostly pointless work of no value with pseudo-randomly attributed value, used for portable hoards of those capable of dealing in it. (already said here)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
biztos 9y ago
What exactly do you think is "mass produced" about contemporary art?
- zachkatz 9y ago
  I think mass-produced contemporary art is actually a huge untapped market. For example, Framed Tweets https://framedtweets.com/ https://framedtweets.com/ [1]. I think the same formula could be replicated by framing other internet content as artwork. [1] Full disclaimer, I'm the founder.

hndamien 9y ago

The main difference is that this is literally all Bitcoin is intended for - “just another way that money exchanges hands.”

unknown_apostle 9y ago

True. Things like gold, bitcoin, stamp collections, art, expensive cars etc serve a similar function: the function of "saving", as opposed to "investing". With "saving" I mean storing some excess purchasing power in something that doesn't have a counterparty and doesn't generate income, but also can't be duplicated easily so is likely to at least not loose a lot of value. Of course, all these saving devices have different properties. Gold and bitcoin are liquid, whereas art is extremely illiquid. Gold and bitcoins are egalitarian, in the sense that a poor man buying gold gets the same thing as a rich man buying gold. Art is elitist and susceptible to huge winner-takes-all effects. All are susceptible to stealing, but cryptocurrencies are susceptible to total failure because of their complexity (bugs, mathematical weakness, ...)

baldfat 9y ago
Art = Tax Haven. Long time ago in my teens I worked in art outside of NYC and my friend's whole business was a Art Moving Company. Art isn't about art but to a very small number of people. I can't tell you how many times people would say that they don't even like the art they own. Art is stored away where no one is able to see it, and all for tax havens. You can put your art into storage where the art sits and the owner doesn't have to pay taxes on their purchases. 2013 - https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21590353-ever-more-wealth-being-parked-fancy-storage-facilities-some-customers-they-are https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21590353-ever-more-w... Same reason why the number one US Currency note in circulation is the $100 bill. In 2012 77% of all US currency was $100 bills! Can't tax cash hidden away. https://qz.com/29561/why-the-share-of-100-bills-in-circulation-has-been-going-up-for-over-40-years/ https://qz.com/29561/why-the-share-of-100-bills-in-circulati...
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  Planet Money #823 talks about this. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/09/584555705/episode-823-planet-monet https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/09/584555705/epis...
  - miralabs 9y ago
    I was just about to post this. I really love planet money. I regularly listen to their podcast as part of my regular runs and this really was a very interesting new information for me

M_Bakhtiari 9y ago

It even has a notion of proof of work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitated_Mass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitated_Mass The only thing that thing accomplishes is proving that a contractor had moved a rock from A to B, about as useful as figuring out how to get a certain number of zeroes in a hash.

ajmurmann 9y ago
Let me guess, you also don't like Yves Klein?
- M_Bakhtiari 9y ago
  I really don't mind the goofballs, it's their enablers, the modern art dealers, critics and collectors, that I have a problem with. I even like some of the things that came out of the movement from an aesthetic point of view, for example much of the stuff that came out of pre-PC IBM. But I don't consider it to have much artistic merit, if any at all.
B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago
Modern art is rather like bitcoin - mostly pointless work of no value with pseudo-randomly attributed value, used for portable hoards of those capable of dealing in it. (already said here)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

biztos 9y ago

What exactly do you think is "mass produced" about contemporary art?

zachkatz 9y ago
I think mass-produced contemporary art is actually a huge untapped market. For example, Framed Tweets https://framedtweets.com/ https://framedtweets.com/ [1]. I think the same formula could be replicated by framing other internet content as artwork. [1] Full disclaimer, I'm the founder.