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Thomas Hobbes would have approved. Famously in the Leviathan he argued for a sovereign commonwealth, a sort of autocratic monarchical rule with no separation of
by igravious 9y ago
Thomas Hobbes would have approved. Famously in the Leviathan he argued for a sovereign commonwealth, a sort of autocratic monarchical rule with no separation of powers. In order that the system be stable freedom of expression is subordinated to the sovereign as is the system of law an the free press.
Hobbes's Leviathan is China. Because Hobbes lived through a very tumultuous period of strife and conflict what he optimised for is stability and peace and prosperity at the expense of individual freedoms like the ability to choose one's destiny through either representative democracy or direct democracy.
If the lives of the vast majority of Chinese are improving, who is to say their system is morally wrong?
In fairness, the West only has itself to blame. Nobody with an honest heart can look at the post-colonial period and say that the West has not meddled in the affairs of other sovereign states. Also, many of the West's so-called republics and democracies are very hollow and corrupt often veering towards plutocracy, the system of law and political legislation is controlled by money and so corporate lobbying and eventually even political capture by corporations is rife. Workers rights are trampled at home and abroad though international agreements. Corporations evade paying taxes, they pollute the environment, collective bargaining is seen as a communist horror rather a democratic good.
The West is in no position to point fingers. That's what gets my goat up. Who the fuck do we think we are that we can tell others how to run their lives. What fucking gall. After all we've done? And we wonder why others respond indignantly and with contempt. I don't blame them. Get your own house in order first as Peterson says.
No, the correct response the Xi's power grab is not a suicidal arms race or political pressure. The correct response is to make the West an example others want to follow. We could start by taking back democracy by making citizen rule more direct so that people feel empowered. Let's move to the Swiss model. Let's reform the courts so that everybody has a fair chance, not the just the wealthy–it does not matter a whit if everybody is equal before the eyes of the law in theory if in practice they are not. We need to counter the evil of nationalism. We need to be sympathetic towards migrants. We need better separation of powers and we need to reject all forms of fundamentalism. Identity politics is a side-show, the arc of history is clear. Most importantly I think is that we need to place real limits on social media companies and we have to dismantle global surveillance, this is an evil so large it boggles the mind. We have to figure out how to combat rising economic inequality! We really do.
They built Leviathan, we built the Panopticon.
I recognise the freedoms we do have, such as my ability to criticise the system without repercussion, though if you agitate too much various agencies may open up a file on you.
- dageshi 9y agoYou could argue the Chinese system hasn't been properly tested in modern times. In other words, there's been no recession, no meaningful economic downturn which really forces leaders to make very hard decisions and causes the population to become restive. The West on the otherhand had that in 2008, it survived although the repurcussions are still being felt (Trump). Can the Chinese avoid a serious recession forever? You would have to assume not, that will ultimately be the test of how well their system holds up.
- coldtea 9y ago>The West on the otherhand had that in 2008, it survived although the repurcussions are still being felt (Trump). Trump is hardly the repercussions though, and the West has hardly survived in the sense of "overcoming" the recession. Trump is a result of (and a reaction of the people to) the recession, and the recession (jobs lost, dwindling middle class, etc) still holds, even though figures paint a rosy pictures and those outside the affected masses hardly know better.
- bsder 9y ago> Can the Chinese avoid a serious recession forever? You would have to assume not, that will ultimately be the test of how well their system holds up. China is sitting on a knife edge, I suspect. There are all manner of things than can bring it crashing down. Automation--demographic imbalance(too many men)--nuke from North Korea. (As much as the West frets about North Korean nukes--practically all the major Chinese cities are closer. Can you imagine if North Korea nuked a Chinese city?) The problem is what will happen as the dinosaur falls. Dinosaurs can take a long time to die and cause a lot of damage while doing so.
- saas_co_de 9y agoWithout markets you have no business cycle so yes they can avoid recession forever. The cost is the loss of benefits of markets. That is not just China though. Since 2008 the entire world is following the same interventionist policies.
- hardlianotion 9y ago