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> “The companies are losing money. The businesses are being subsidized by [venture capital] money … And the drivers are essentially subsidizing it by working fo

> “The companies are losing money. The businesses are being subsidized by [venture capital] money … And the drivers are essentially subsidizing it by working for very low wages.” Last time I pointed that out I was downvoted for some unknown reason. My neighbor was talking about buying a new car to drive for lyft/uber and I was like "the trick is to tear up somebody else's car." We'll see if he heeds my advice though I kind of doubt it since he has an MBA and I'm just the resident slacker who happens to know the business.

Kluny 9y ago
I did the math on working for SkipTheDishes last year (Uber doesn't operate in my city). I really wanted it to be a good idea, but once I calculated gas, insurance and wear and tear on the car, it was an incredibly poor deal. That's with a paid off, cheap, car, too. Not for me.
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  Yeah. Do you think that depreciation shouldn't be 39 cents a mile for an old bucket? Or do they have requirements for the age of your car? If you have like a 2000 camry (which runs forever) depreciation seems to be virtually 0, especially if you buy the car used and only pay like 1 grand. Also, I can imagine if you're just shuttling food around instead of passengers, you can get away with a worse car. Nobody wants to hop in a bucket and go somewhere, but food delivery doesn't matter.
  - Kluny 9y ago
    I use Mr Money Mustache's figuring that each mile costs $1.55, then convert it to Canadian. $1.19 per km. Even a 2000 Camry will depreciate if you put enough mileage on it - if I was shopping for one I'd pay $5000 for under 120,000km, but not even a thousand for over 280,000km. But yes, you can get away with a bucket for food delivery. I'd say the best way to do it is on a scooter, but then you're really putting your life on the line every night.
    - jimmywanger 9y ago
      Those old Japanese sedans are good for far more than 280000 km if you keep up on maintenance yourself. Yes, anecotes are not evidence, but this article is interesting. https://jalopnik.com/5885287/how-i-put-750000-miles-on-my-honda-civic-in-just-five-years https://jalopnik.com/5885287/how-i-put-750000-miles-on-my-ho... And besides, you can buy a car for 4k with a lot of miles. At that point it's like a dishrag. You use it to do your job until you need a new one. Blows up by the side of the road? Tell your customer that happened, buy AAA, and depending on how bad it is, you can fix it yourself after it gets towed home, or junk it and buy another. Or am I missing something?
      - 18pfsmt 9y ago
        I don't know where you live, but when I looked at for Colorado back in 2010, the state's Public Utility Commission regulations require cars to be 7 years old or less.
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        Apparently times have changed. http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/consumer-information/2015-emissions-inspction-program-faq/ http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/consumer-information/20... If I'm reading this right, this just means if your car is older you have to get it inspected. I somehow doubt that classic cars (Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, 510) are banned anywhere in the country - they might have to meet more stringent tests.
      - Kluny 9y ago
        They are, I agree, but if you're buying one that's 18 years old than you haven't done the maintenance yourself, and it's hard to be sure all the previous owners have done all the maintenance items. If I bought one brand new I have no doubt I could keep it running for 500,000km, but that's not the case in this hypothetical.
im3w1l 9y ago
I didn't know MBA's were that squeezed that they need second jobs.
- samhunta 9y ago
  An MBA does not guarantee a good job.
- UncleEntity 9y ago
  I think he is having a hard time getting a job that doesn't pay peanuts, kind of suspect it has to do with his English skills (he's from the Ukraine or something) but it could just be the market is saturated with newly minted MBAs.
- lsc 9y ago
  MBAs are different from engineering degrees in that while a MBA from a top school is super valuable, a MBA from a so-so school is, as far as I can tell, worth very little. Keep in mind that one-year MBAs from disreputable schools are often advertised to working people. I mean, you do learn things; my understanding is that it's sort of a 'survey degree' that gives you a shallow treatment of a lot of different business disciplines. If they would have let me take the MBA without an undergrad, even at a so-so school, I would have done it a few years into my own adventure running a business, and I think it would have helped me. If you have management experience and skills, a MBA even from a not so great school can help. But I think the difference between a MBA from a meh school and a MBA from a top school is overall far greater than the difference between an engineering degree at a meh school and an engineering degree at a top school.
  - gaius 9y ago
    The entire point of the MBA is the networking opportunities and joining the alumni club. The content can be got for a fraction of the cost, or even free. The success of the top MBAs is therefore self-perpetuating. And there is literally no point in doing one outside of the top maybe 20 schools, because there is no one there or in the alumni network who can give you a foothold.
markcerqueira 9y ago
> Last time I pointed that out I was downvoted for some unknown reason. Hard to believe but the number of votes something gets != the quality or accuracy of the statement.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
danso 9y ago
LOL, I'm feel pretty much trained to see a top-voted "Thanks again to all the VCs for subsidizing my taxi rides!"-type comment every time I click to the HN discussion on stories about Lyft/Uber valuations and investments.
foobarian 9y ago
I don't get it. Taxicabs such as in NYC are famously expensive to buy into, and yet drivers somehow afford it and make livings on them. So if they are clearly not losing money, why is it that a company that's supposed to be vastly more efficient due to use of computers can't make a profit? Are the tech overheads really that high?
- nerfhammer 9y ago
  Because they're spending it on other stuff. Lots of those thousands and thousands of engineers are working on developing other products not the least of which is self-driving cars.
- UncleEntity 9y ago
  My theory is they are attempting to put the competition out of business by running at a loss then adjust the rates to where they can make money which, coincidentally, will be be almost exactly the amounts the "evil" taxi companies were charging. I could be totally wrong but if I were a betting man...
  - chadrs 9y ago
    By the way this behavior is illegal in many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing#Legal_aspects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing#Legal_aspect...
  - pesfandiar 9y ago
    That's still a win for consumers, because they certainly raised the bar for customer experience. They run leaner than old-fashioned cab companies and can keep prices lower at the end too.
    - hrasyid 9y ago
      Is it a win for society, though? If they ended up being a stronger and more global monopoly than cab companies, the savings from being "leaner" would just end up in the pockets of the few and everyone else would not be better off.

Kluny 9y ago

I did the math on working for SkipTheDishes last year (Uber doesn't operate in my city). I really wanted it to be a good idea, but once I calculated gas, insurance and wear and tear on the car, it was an incredibly poor deal. That's with a paid off, cheap, car, too. Not for me.

jimmywanger 9y ago
Yeah. Do you think that depreciation shouldn't be 39 cents a mile for an old bucket? Or do they have requirements for the age of your car? If you have like a 2000 camry (which runs forever) depreciation seems to be virtually 0, especially if you buy the car used and only pay like 1 grand. Also, I can imagine if you're just shuttling food around instead of passengers, you can get away with a worse car. Nobody wants to hop in a bucket and go somewhere, but food delivery doesn't matter.
- Kluny 9y ago
  I use Mr Money Mustache's figuring that each mile costs $1.55, then convert it to Canadian. $1.19 per km. Even a 2000 Camry will depreciate if you put enough mileage on it - if I was shopping for one I'd pay $5000 for under 120,000km, but not even a thousand for over 280,000km. But yes, you can get away with a bucket for food delivery. I'd say the best way to do it is on a scooter, but then you're really putting your life on the line every night.
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    Those old Japanese sedans are good for far more than 280000 km if you keep up on maintenance yourself. Yes, anecotes are not evidence, but this article is interesting. https://jalopnik.com/5885287/how-i-put-750000-miles-on-my-honda-civic-in-just-five-years https://jalopnik.com/5885287/how-i-put-750000-miles-on-my-ho... And besides, you can buy a car for 4k with a lot of miles. At that point it's like a dishrag. You use it to do your job until you need a new one. Blows up by the side of the road? Tell your customer that happened, buy AAA, and depending on how bad it is, you can fix it yourself after it gets towed home, or junk it and buy another. Or am I missing something?
    - 18pfsmt 9y ago
      I don't know where you live, but when I looked at for Colorado back in 2010, the state's Public Utility Commission regulations require cars to be 7 years old or less.
      - jimmywanger 9y ago
        Apparently times have changed. http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/consumer-information/2015-emissions-inspction-program-faq/ http://aircarecolorado.com/index.php/consumer-information/20... If I'm reading this right, this just means if your car is older you have to get it inspected. I somehow doubt that classic cars (Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, 510) are banned anywhere in the country - they might have to meet more stringent tests.
    - Kluny 9y ago
      They are, I agree, but if you're buying one that's 18 years old than you haven't done the maintenance yourself, and it's hard to be sure all the previous owners have done all the maintenance items. If I bought one brand new I have no doubt I could keep it running for 500,000km, but that's not the case in this hypothetical.

im3w1l 9y ago

I didn't know MBA's were that squeezed that they need second jobs.

samhunta 9y ago
An MBA does not guarantee a good job.
UncleEntity 9y ago
I think he is having a hard time getting a job that doesn't pay peanuts, kind of suspect it has to do with his English skills (he's from the Ukraine or something) but it could just be the market is saturated with newly minted MBAs.
lsc 9y ago
MBAs are different from engineering degrees in that while a MBA from a top school is super valuable, a MBA from a so-so school is, as far as I can tell, worth very little. Keep in mind that one-year MBAs from disreputable schools are often advertised to working people. I mean, you do learn things; my understanding is that it's sort of a 'survey degree' that gives you a shallow treatment of a lot of different business disciplines. If they would have let me take the MBA without an undergrad, even at a so-so school, I would have done it a few years into my own adventure running a business, and I think it would have helped me. If you have management experience and skills, a MBA even from a not so great school can help. But I think the difference between a MBA from a meh school and a MBA from a top school is overall far greater than the difference between an engineering degree at a meh school and an engineering degree at a top school.
- gaius 9y ago
  The entire point of the MBA is the networking opportunities and joining the alumni club. The content can be got for a fraction of the cost, or even free. The success of the top MBAs is therefore self-perpetuating. And there is literally no point in doing one outside of the top maybe 20 schools, because there is no one there or in the alumni network who can give you a foothold.

markcerqueira 9y ago

> Last time I pointed that out I was downvoted for some unknown reason. Hard to believe but the number of votes something gets != the quality or accuracy of the statement.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

danso 9y ago

LOL, I'm feel pretty much trained to see a top-voted "Thanks again to all the VCs for subsidizing my taxi rides!"-type comment every time I click to the HN discussion on stories about Lyft/Uber valuations and investments.

foobarian 9y ago

I don't get it. Taxicabs such as in NYC are famously expensive to buy into, and yet drivers somehow afford it and make livings on them. So if they are clearly not losing money, why is it that a company that's supposed to be vastly more efficient due to use of computers can't make a profit? Are the tech overheads really that high?

nerfhammer 9y ago
Because they're spending it on other stuff. Lots of those thousands and thousands of engineers are working on developing other products not the least of which is self-driving cars.
UncleEntity 9y ago
My theory is they are attempting to put the competition out of business by running at a loss then adjust the rates to where they can make money which, coincidentally, will be be almost exactly the amounts the "evil" taxi companies were charging. I could be totally wrong but if I were a betting man...
- chadrs 9y ago
  By the way this behavior is illegal in many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing#Legal_aspects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing#Legal_aspect...
- pesfandiar 9y ago
  That's still a win for consumers, because they certainly raised the bar for customer experience. They run leaner than old-fashioned cab companies and can keep prices lower at the end too.
  - hrasyid 9y ago
    Is it a win for society, though? If they ended up being a stronger and more global monopoly than cab companies, the savings from being "leaner" would just end up in the pockets of the few and everyone else would not be better off.