5 ms·
NBA is totally underrepresented by non-black Males, let's sue them. Swim tournament is severely underrepresented by deep skin colors. Meanwhile track and field
by ausjke 9y ago
NBA is totally underrepresented by non-black Males, let's sue them.
Swim tournament is severely underrepresented by deep skin colors. Meanwhile track and field is the opposite.
Let's mix all colors everywhere based on population percentile, to achieve diversity, equal rights and fairness.
Or do something like Dr.King hoped, that is, don't judge a person by color.
- colordrops 9y agoThat's a good point. There are many fields that are dominated by women or non-whites, yet there is virtually zero attention paid to those. Why is that?
- tabeth 9y agoWhat's the median salary for those positions?
- rmrm 9y agoI don't doubt thats the reason - but I've always felt it wasn't exactly a compelling argument. (Potential) Discrimination is perfectly fine, so long as the job is average. Welders, car mechanics, nurses.... Aren't we somehow presumably stifling the interest of large amounts of kids to enter these jobs based on gender biases? I would assume so based on the numbers.
- xyzzyz 9y agoQuite high for veterinarians, which, at the college level, is as dominated by women as CS is by men (80%). They aren't dominating the work force yet, since in the past men became vets much more often they do now, and we still have those older male vets in the work force, but their numbers are steadily decreasing.
- jotux 9y agoRegistered nurses: 90% women, median $68k Nurse Practitioners: 92% women, median $107k Veterinarians: 83% women, median $88k All data from BLS.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- tabeth 9y agoThis is good, but is easily explained by the reflected percentages with various doctor specialties. What's the technology equivalent?
- jotux 9y agoI think it's better to compare whole labor subgroups: [1] Computer and mathematical occupations (engineers, programmers, etc): > 4,804k jobs, $78k median, 25.5% women, 7% projected growth [2] Healthcare practitioners and technical occupations (doctors, nurses, technicians): > 9,141k jobs, $63k median, 75.0% women, 18% projected growth If we imagine the ideal scenario of employment across all jobs being 50/50 men/women then we need to add 2.3 million women to tech and 4.5 million men to healthcare. Arguably, the lack of men entering the healthcare field (good-paying jobs, growing need) is at least as important as the lack of women entering technology, but why do we constantly talk about getting more women in to tech but not men in to healthcare? [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/home.htm [2] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/home.ht... [3] Percent women info: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
- tabeth 9y ago> why do we constantly talk about getting more women in to tech but not men in to healthcare? Who is we? HN? If so, the answer to that is obvious. Your comparison needs more nuance, in my view. If health care had 100 people, 80 nurses (70% of which are women) and 20 doctors (10% of which are women) then you'd have a breakdown like the following: Women: 56 nurses, 2 doctors Men: 24 nurses, 18 doctors If you said the median doctor has a salary of 200K and a nurse 65k, men are paid 5160K and women are paid 4040K. In other words men are paid 56% of the total healthcare salary despite only representing 42% of the workforce. So despite the majority of health care professionals being women, men are still overrepresented in terms of salary, and in a way, influence. This example obviously uses fake numbers, but is the crux of the problem. Money allocation is more accurate than job allocation imo. Moreover, if you were to total men's salaries/wealth and compare it to women's wealth it would be overwhelming in favor of men. Discussions surrounding specific job types and their gender allocation are irrelevant and a distraction. If men and women represented the same amount of total wealth in the US I think these discussions would be more meaningful, but the disparity in wealth is reflected influence and consequently opportunity. So, yeah, more men will be reflected with higher percentages of the higher income opportunities. This is reflected in the BLS data: Employees vs. Managers Nurses vs. Doctors Teachers vs. School Administrators Business owners etc. etc. The issue has never been that men have more of the jobs. The issue is that men have all of the money. That's why people are talking about tech, and say, not education. The job discussion (particularly within tech) is just a way to attempt to solve a tiny aspect of the problem.
- woofyman 9y agoThere’s plenty of interest in getting more men in nursing. http://blog.diversitynursing.com/blog/topic/male-nurse http://blog.diversitynursing.com/blog/topic/male-nurse
- oh_sigh 9y agoDoes nursing do a lot of navel gazing about the reason why so few men are in nursing is because everyone currently in nursing is sexist?
- ghostcluster 9y agoI'd be surprised to see a major hospital system telling their recruiters to purge female nurse applicants from the hiring queue.
- tajen 9y agoThere’s no attention in getting men teaching. Where 80% teachers are females. And we still wonder why boys ragequit school at unprecedented levels: There’s only 1 man left for 2 women at university now. And it keeps deflating. Could it be too much effort placed on getting women to succeed, and too much misandry from teachers? and men defending their side of equality systematically being accused of masculinism? No, men can’t be discriminated against, because discrimination only touches women, by definition.
- woofyman 9y ago>There’s no attention in getting men teaching. Where 80% teachers are females. That’s not true. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/07/22/male-teacher-shortage-affects-boys-who-need-role-models/103585138/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/07/22/male-teacher-...
- drwl 9y agoI'm not sure that's an equivalent relation. I wasn't able to read the article, but NBA representation has a lot to do with skill and performance.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- EGreg 9y agoSo what? You seem to be assuming that Black people simply have more skill and performance than others. You do this in Basketball but not in other areas. Currently, hiring males for programming jobs is due to skill and performance, because far more men chose to go through this type of education than women. Huge numbers of men and women don't enjoy straining to grapple with abstract concepts for long stretches of time, sitting hunched over a keyboard, and so on. But, more men do than women, at the moment. So does that mean things are just fine the way they are, as your comment suggests about being Black and skill and performance? Why not encourage, for instance, more Chinese basketball players to get scholarships, and increase their skill and performance? Why settle for how things are, which currently is not very diverse as anyone can plainly see? China's basketball team has a lot of great Chinese players.
- ghostcluster 9y agoSo when the NBA hires for job qualifications like height, skill and performance, that's OK. But for tech positions they should actively discriminate against skilled applicants because maybe somebody else ought to do it? The NBA is actively recruiting/training for elite talent in China: http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/12/news/companies/china-nba-basketball-academies-players/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/12/news/companies/china-nba-bas...
- EGreg 9y agoI think you TOTALLY misunderstood my point. Which was: how come drwl accepts the status quo with NBA and not with programmers? Why do they simply assume that some qualities are more prevalent with Blacks but not with males? I am not taking a position in my comment one way or the other, just pointing out a potential double standard so the reader can make their own conclusions by reconciling them :) I assume you are clearly on the side of "things are the way they are because that's how biology works". So here is another one, far more politically charged. Are you prepared to endorse this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United... "There is general agreement in the literature that blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes than are whites in the United States. Whether this is the case for less serious crimes is less clear." This statement is considered racist. However the equivalent statement for men and women is not considered sexist: men commit far more violent crime than women. Therefore, should these things be used in profiling people suspected of violent crime? You can go on and on about these things.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y agoAll good options. But don't forget to represent people of different body types by weight and height as well. As a very short, fat, and white dude who can't jump...but has a decent jumper, I still want my shot at Lebron James in the NBA.
- wqnt 9y agoIf I understand it correctly, it is only discrimination if employer cannot demonstrate the criteria are needed for work performance. Race and gender are not related to performance in most work categories. In the case of body types in sports, they are.
- the_grue 9y agoAnd so are problem-solving skills, relevant experience and education in STEM. Is it anyone's fault that white/asian males happen to have more of it than other groups?
- ghostbrainalpha 9y agoI get relevant experience, but are saying that general problem solving skills are race based?
- the_grue 9y agoExperience is not the same as problem-solving skills. And I never said they were "race based".
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- belltaco 9y ago>NBA is totally underrepresented by non-black Males, let's sue them. False equivalency. How do we encourage short people to grow taller? Or kids to grow up into a tall adult? Coming to tech, it's possible to encourage people to work in STEM who otherwise may feel unwelcome due to various issues, including gender, age, race, workplace attitudes, glass ceilings etc. That includes trying to have role models that kids may want to emulate.
- smallnamespace 9y agoWait, so the majority of tall athletic people are black men? What is the actual argument here?
- arkona 9y agoIt is not at all a false equivalency. How do we encourage artistically oriented people to be more mathematical? How do we change ESFJ into INTP? How do we increase IQ? Just hecause certain traits are mental rather than physical doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
- arkona2 9y agoIt is not at all a false equivalency. How do we encourage artistically oriented people to be more mathematical? How do we change ESFJ into INTP? How do we increase IQ? Just hecause certain traits are mental rather than physical doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
- random3 9y agoSo height discrimination is not discrimination? Funny, but no, not to encourage people to grow taller, but to encourage NBA to have height classes, just as boxing has weight classes.
- arkona3 9y agoNot at all a false equivalency. How do we encourage artistically oriented people to be more mathematical? How do we change ESFJ into INTP? How do we increase IQ? Just hecause certain traits are mental rather than physical doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
- 9y ago
- majos 9y agoDo you really think there are young people in the US who could be NBA players but are held back by lack of resources, lack of training, and lack of friends/family members who play basketball? I think that's a key difference between the "diversity problem" in the NBA and the diversity problem (no scare quotes) in tech.
- m_mueller 9y agoDiversity quotas are making this situation actively worse by giving a bad image to those who pass. In German there‘s even a compound slur word for one such cases, „Quotenfrau“ (quota woman). These kind of outcomes were once unforeseen but are very easily to foresee now after lots of experience with that kind of thing. I firmly believe that as a society we should try to make people of all shapes be interested in the most productive and needed professions, but the pushing and pulling should end there. If you want equal, just go ahead and install actual communism, I actually might be on board with thst more, at least with modern technology it should be doable such that people can all live well enough.
- tibbetts 9y agoPeople like to say this is a major problem, and I don’t know of any quantification of the effect one way or the other, but I am skeptical. Annecdotally I do know my mother was told (by coworkers and her boss) she was a quota hire in 1975 and it was still the start to a successful 42 year career in sales. She was only with that first company about 4 years. I imagine many other people overcome the stigma associated with getting an “undeserved” opportunity or being told they were hired thanks to a lower standard due to their race or gender. I personally try not to hold it against my fellow white male entrepreneurs from prestigious schools and affluent backgrounds that I know we had an easier time raising capital and hiring people because of our race, gender, and social connections.
- netheril96 9y agoYes. Jeremy Lin has spoken on multiple occasions of the discrimination he has encountered entering and during NBA, and god knows how many more Asian Americans are kept from a NBA career by these discrimination. (Hint, there are very few Asians in NBA).
- throwaway201803 9y agowomen form a majority of new entrants in certain medical sub specialities that were historically male dominated e.g. pediatricians, psychiatry etc. rather than any of these organizations being overtly discriminatory, can we acknowledge certain groups might just be self-selecting into professions as a part of culture identity and work-life balance or risk/reward preferences. and that's okay!
- saas_co_de 9y agoThis is a false equivalency. The idea that male programmers are like professional athletes who are so far superior to women that they deserve a similar level of elevated status and disproportional representation is repugnant and indicative of the problem that needs to be solved.
- tzs 9y agoBlack people are severally underrepresented among swimmers in general, not just among competitive swimmers. The BBC had an interesting article about this a few years ago [1]. This is a serious problem, leading to unnecessary deaths of black children. Here's an article by the founder of an organization trying to address this called "Black Kids Swim" [2]. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11172054 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11172054 [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-stereotype-is-killing-black-children/2017/02/10/2c06fa14-e249-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?utm_term=.100f03901e92 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-stereotype-is-k...