4 ms·

In addition to IntronExon's points, the very headline of the article points out that these experiences don't happen as often to men. And they generally happen o

In addition to IntronExon's points, the very headline of the article points out that these experiences don't happen as often to men. And they generally happen out of the sight of other men. Thus even the men who are aware of the presence of bad actors are sometimes blind to how many of them there are, just how horrible their actions are, and more importantly who the bad actors are. And because of this, a) it's harder to grasp the extent and severity of the problem; b) they may not know whose behavior needs to be corrected; and c) they may rationalize or deny a bad actor's misbehavior when someone does point it out because their experiences with him have been positive, so the accusation causes cognitive dissonance.

eropple 9y ago
> And they generally happen out of the sight of other men. Some does. Others don't. In my experience it is very common for privileged folks who feel that they are of lower status to try to exert some (generally undue) authority or dominance in group settings, usually by ha-ha-only-serious'ing nasty jokes at people who they feel that can be superior towards. Women, ESL folks, ethnic minorities--you get the idea. And the article makes mention of this--calling another employee "token", that sort of thing. On the other end of the ladder, I've tangled with quite a few people in managerial and executive roles that thought that their, again, ha-ha-only-serious racism and sexism was somehow Not A Problem. It's not just that it's pervasive--it's that we've allowed, for a very long time, the sorts of social shittiness that are sometimes termed "microaggressions" to set the tone for the social arrangements (and work is a social arrangement) in which we all participate with varying degrees of willingness and autonomy. The little stuff in public creates permission structures for the big nasty stuff in private.
tomc1985 9y ago
> Thus even the men who are aware of the presence of bad actors are sometimes blind to how many of them there are, just how horrible their actions are, and more importantly who the bad actors are. This. And as a man I am sick of it. I want nothing but the best for the women in my life, and the powerlessness of this situation makes me angry. We men are stubborn motherfuckers and it is rare for to meet someone like what is described in the post and also who seems ready/willing/able to changeinto treating others respectfully. Hence the trash bit -- just fucking throw them out. So many of us want to get back to solving relevant problems. Interpersonal shit like this keeps coming up in our community and it needs to just. fucking. stop.
- eropple 9y ago
  > So many of us want to get back to solving relevant problems With respect: digging out from beneath literal millenia of unjust treatment (I mean, this behavior didn't start when we decided women were allowed to have jobs) is probably a relevant problem for decent humans in general.

eropple 9y ago

> And they generally happen out of the sight of other men. Some does. Others don't. In my experience it is very common for privileged folks who feel that they are of lower status to try to exert some (generally undue) authority or dominance in group settings, usually by ha-ha-only-serious'ing nasty jokes at people who they feel that can be superior towards. Women, ESL folks, ethnic minorities--you get the idea. And the article makes mention of this--calling another employee "token", that sort of thing. On the other end of the ladder, I've tangled with quite a few people in managerial and executive roles that thought that their, again, ha-ha-only-serious racism and sexism was somehow Not A Problem. It's not just that it's pervasive--it's that we've allowed, for a very long time, the sorts of social shittiness that are sometimes termed "microaggressions" to set the tone for the social arrangements (and work is a social arrangement) in which we all participate with varying degrees of willingness and autonomy. The little stuff in public creates permission structures for the big nasty stuff in private.

tomc1985 9y ago

> Thus even the men who are aware of the presence of bad actors are sometimes blind to how many of them there are, just how horrible their actions are, and more importantly who the bad actors are. This. And as a man I am sick of it. I want nothing but the best for the women in my life, and the powerlessness of this situation makes me angry. We men are stubborn motherfuckers and it is rare for to meet someone like what is described in the post and also who seems ready/willing/able to changeinto treating others respectfully. Hence the trash bit -- just fucking throw them out. So many of us want to get back to solving relevant problems. Interpersonal shit like this keeps coming up in our community and it needs to just. fucking. stop.

eropple 9y ago
> So many of us want to get back to solving relevant problems With respect: digging out from beneath literal millenia of unjust treatment (I mean, this behavior didn't start when we decided women were allowed to have jobs) is probably a relevant problem for decent humans in general.