19 ms·

Just a touch of optimism here. I suffered from depression for 7 years, then started meditation. I can say I am now very happy after 4 years of regular practice.

by arbre 9y ago

Just a touch of optimism here. I suffered from depression for 7 years, then started meditation. I can say I am now very happy after 4 years of regular practice. I don't really care if my brain was a bit damaged then. Don't lose hope, everyone has a big potential of happiness just waiting to be explored inside. Have a happy life!

anotherevan 9y ago
Would love to hear more about the type of meditation you practice. How long, how often. How hard was it to get started and be consistent. That sort of thing.
- prophesi 9y ago
  Not the OP, but I also got into meditation a while ago, and it helped a lot with my seasonal depression. I followed the instructions from John Yates' "The Mind Illuminated" book, which I actually found from someone on Hacker News raving about it. It's really straightforward with describing the goals and techniques for each stage.
  - toomanybeersies 9y ago
    Maybe I'll try meditation for my Seasonal Affective Disorder this winter. It would probably be a lot healthier than substance abuse. Cheaper, too.
  - justinpombrio 9y ago
    > I followed the instructions from John Yates' "The Mind Illuminated" book Can confirm: this is a very clearly written book. It reads like a reference manual for meditation.
  - strangegecko 9y ago
    I'm wondering if I've been depressed for too long for things to reach me. I've bought that same book, probably after reading the same post about it, but I have at most read a few pages, and managed to meditate maybe a few times since then. The world is complete information overload for me. I currently urgently need to: 1) learn a new language 2) practice meditation 3) learn react / unit testing / ML / distributed systems stuff 4) learn basic social skills 5) actually live life a little 6) ... I say "currently", but this has been true for years.
    - polalavik 9y ago
      whoa absolutely in the same boat. So fickle and can't pin down an interest - but now I've lost most motivation to even take up interest in anything altogether.
      - strangegecko 9y ago
        Well, tbh I don't experience it as lack of interest, I just struggle to keep up with everything. I prioritize work because not earning money isn't an option yet. That combined with my general depression and lack of support pretty much takes all my energy. I have a little bit left here and there, but it's simply not enough to get far with anything. It's very discouraging to start anything because it instantly feels overwhelming and I know I have more must do queued up that I'm deprioritizing to get this technically optional thing done. How can I read for hours in a day if I need to do house keeping stuff, send bills to insurance for reimbursement that are a year old, get that health checkup done, ... and so on. So much stuff to do. I don't know why I experience life like this. Everyone seems to have so much discretionary time to spend, especially if they do as little as I do.
    - olingern 9y ago
      I've suffered and still suffer from a lot same in the past. I hope sharing what's helped me can help someone else who feels like theirs so much to do / learn, but starting never happens. For me, it's often been a result of procrastination but, just in the past couple of years, have I began to understand the source of the procrastination. My issue was fear. Fear that I would fail learning [_whatever new thing_], or not reach a deep enough state of meditation. So, my fear was compounded with some judgement of my ability. At the moment, I'm practicing what I call "lowering the barrier to entry" and shelving perfectionism. I used to dream of progress as the grandiose "a-ha" moments; however, the reality is that progress is made up of many small moments over time. As much as it pains me to suggest "agile for your life," I have found some success in having a personal backlog and trying to determine what matters to me most. It's the kind of thing life coaches charge you a lot of money to tackle, but most engineers / tech workers are accustomed to: - Decide the project's top 10 priorities - Place a value on each - Determine their effort - Break each down into subtasks - Plan a chunk of work - Start I would also ask yourself where your motivation lies. Is it extrinsic or intrinsic. What inspires you to learn ML or React? I struggled with learning music for a long time because it always felt like something I was "supposed" to do. I still want to, but I have to come to terms with the source of that motivation. Living is as easy as being "here," yet that's paradoxically hard for our stimulus driven brains. I've found slowing down, tasting things, feeling textures, and listening more have made me more aware and present. If you ever feel dead inside, deploy on Friday at 5. Finally, I'll add all of this is easier to type and intellectualize than it is to live. To me, it often feels like a constant fight of putting time into the things I value to grow as I envision myself X months / years into the future.
- petervm 9y ago
  Here's some advice from a fellow beginner. After many failed attempts to make it stick, what worked for me was a combination of two things: - Reading about meditation in general just to learn more about it out of curiosity, not necessarily looking for instructions. This helped create a mental model of what it entailed, what to expect, what to look for. I read different books over the years, but I really like how Sam Harris describes his experience with it in his podcast. - This app: https://insighttimer.com/ https://insighttimer.com/ I've tried multiple apps but this one really made the difference for me. There are thousands of meditations to choose from, you can filter by duration, and there's a bit of gamification too. Another important thing, there's no "meditation course" to follow - you just search a meditation session that looks right for your mood and the time you have and that's it. These features combined removed all the friction I always found as a beginner. At first I started with only 5 to 10 minutes every morning, guided meditation with breathing exercises. As time went by, I felt I was improving in gaining control of the experience and started doing longer sessions with just soft music as background. Make it a daily routine, start small, do your best but don't be too hard on yourself.
Florin_Andrei 9y ago
The plasticity of the brain is tremendous. I would not be surprised if it turns out that long-term meditation and other techniques not only reverse damage from depression completely, but eventually leave their own signature changes (which are beneficial) on the brain's structure.
- conjectures 9y ago
  Oh they do leave a trace. Plenty of neuroimaging papers I've not read are on long term meditators. There's a good Sam Harris ep. on this topic. https://samharris.org/podcasts/111-science-meditation/ https://samharris.org/podcasts/111-science-meditation/
tekkk 9y ago
I am agreeing with the other comment(s) here asking if you could explain further how has meditation specifically helped you? And what/how do you meditate? I too feel that there's another happy universe inside my head were I to distract myself to believe in another reality. But it's just biological facts that come to maul me and digesting uncomfortable thoughts by yourself is not very efficient way of solving the issue. I am not living up to my potential and the momentary voices, although painful, are a reminder to me that I have to change something to feel good about myself. I think in the heart of it is the need for a constant validation through something, other people's love and affection mostly, that you can feel that your life is worth living. In the sense same thing (maybe) that you can do with meditation and keep those positive neural pathways from growing shut.
- trevyn 9y ago
  I’m not a fan of meditation, but recognizing that you can actually choose how to feel can be very empowering. I suspect that some people get locked in a catch-22 like the following: 1) Because they feel down, they empathize with other people who feel down, and find it personally important to be just, helpful, extra considerate, and thoughtful toward others. 2) Because of this, any indication of injustice or discomfort feels like a personal affront to their values and identity. 3) Any anger or pain resulting from this causes a reaffirmation of #1, and the cycle is reinforced.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    Yes. Learning how to unhook from other peoples trauma and pain was really critical in my recovery. I realized that very often the charge we feel to dig in and solve someone else's issue is often linked to our own unhealed past. Ironically, it's when we heal ourselves that we can actually be of the highest service to those who are hurting.
    - icc97 9y ago
      > Ironically, it's when we heal ourselves that we can actually be of the highest service to those who are hurting. I think it's a two fold improvement, you stop being an emotional burden to others who worry about you and you are also more able to support them with their other worries.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
meesterdude 9y ago
My experience with meditation has allowed me to be more accepting of my emotions, beyond just happiness - oddly enough, being willing to be unhappy has made me happier. But there are times I am rightfully sad and I allow those feelings to be felt and let go. Maybe for you there is a lot of untapped happiness - by all means, ride that wave if you've got it. I had to figure out that I don't have that, my ocean moves with different currents.
- leot 9y ago
  > oddly enough, being willing to be unhappy has made me happier. Suppressing, fighting, and avoiding feelings usually strengthens them. By contrast, calm compassionate and curious observation will often allow them to dissipate "on their own". Deal with bad feelings like you deal with an angry person: listen seriously. Often they just want to be heard.
psyc 9y ago
Same here. I tried every medication, and saw dozens of psychiatrists and therapists. Nothing helped. I started meditating daily, as well as consuming various ‘gurus’ like Tolle and Sadhguru. Depression lifted steadily over a period of several months as I learned to stop thinking about myself. I’ve been ok to happy for 2 years.
- slothtrop 9y ago
  "learned to stop thinking about myself" -- what does this even mean? Happiness is entirely about yourself.
  - psyc 9y ago
    ruminating. thinking unproductive / judging thoughts. whatever
BlytheSchuma 9y ago
"Have a happy life!" News flash arbo! You're still depressed.
ProudNounDUzber 9y ago
"Have a happy life!" News flash arbo! You're still depressed.
WalterSear 9y ago
Meditation excerbated the anhedonic symptoms of my treatment resistant depression quite severely. Fortunately for me, it sent me back into treatment with a psychiatrist that put me on the only class of antidepressants that actually works. (Recent studies in which they throw out everyone who does not respond to treatment, handily gaming the statistics in the process, notwithstanding.) I'm unlikely to ever see remission, but I'm definitely doing better now. Before anyone suggests it, I'm experienced enough to know I wasn't 'doing it wrong'. Being 'stuck' in the present is how depressive anhedonia feels.
- nugga 9y ago
  Having dealt with years of clinical depression and not getting much done beyond basic 'just in time' survival I want to say the following: Meditation may unlock or bring you closer to the bad stuff you've been avoiding dealing with that has been making you depressed or feel bad. You need to put in a lot of work and plow through it with persistence, even if in that moment you don't feel like it. It may be difficult if you feel like you're covered in mud and darkness but there is light at the end of the tunnel even if you can't see it at the moment.
  - WalterSear 9y ago
    Yup, not that. I didn't need psychotherapy, and there was nothing it brought me closer too. I need help with organic depression.
    - nugga 9y ago
      I don't want to preach and I don't know your situation but I offer my perspective regardless. I may be talking completely past you because I'm not familiar with the term organic depression, and that's ok, maybe someone else will find this helpful. I grant there may be some mechanism that can be fixed alleviated by chemicals acting on the body but everything is connected, body-mind-soul. As far as I can tell, depression is in essence a negative feedback loop of bad thoughts that flood your brain and body incessantly creating negativity and sluggishness that further shape your thoughts and behaviour. A depressed person may not even realize their mind may be constantly telling them they suck or they're not worthy or whatever, but that is, as all thoughts and emotions are, illusionary in the sense that you don't have to take that as your own. You don't have to associate your being or identify as that chatter or the phenomenon passing through that body. You're purer and more beautiful and more deserving of love than that. Thoughts can have tremendous energy especially if you get provoked by or stuck to them. What prolonged persistent meditation practice (say at least 2x30 min per day) may help one achieve is a sort of mental clarity or non separateness from/non attachment to thoughts, seeing how the mind really works.
likeabbas 9y ago
What sort of meditation do you do? I tend to do a bit of "focus on your breath" meditation for 5 minutes at a time throughout the day, but I feel like I'm missing something deeper

by arbre 9y ago

anotherevan 9y ago

Would love to hear more about the type of meditation you practice. How long, how often. How hard was it to get started and be consistent. That sort of thing.

prophesi 9y ago
Not the OP, but I also got into meditation a while ago, and it helped a lot with my seasonal depression. I followed the instructions from John Yates' "The Mind Illuminated" book, which I actually found from someone on Hacker News raving about it. It's really straightforward with describing the goals and techniques for each stage.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  Maybe I'll try meditation for my Seasonal Affective Disorder this winter. It would probably be a lot healthier than substance abuse. Cheaper, too.
- justinpombrio 9y ago
  > I followed the instructions from John Yates' "The Mind Illuminated" book Can confirm: this is a very clearly written book. It reads like a reference manual for meditation.
- strangegecko 9y ago
  I'm wondering if I've been depressed for too long for things to reach me. I've bought that same book, probably after reading the same post about it, but I have at most read a few pages, and managed to meditate maybe a few times since then. The world is complete information overload for me. I currently urgently need to: 1) learn a new language 2) practice meditation 3) learn react / unit testing / ML / distributed systems stuff 4) learn basic social skills 5) actually live life a little 6) ... I say "currently", but this has been true for years.
  - polalavik 9y ago
    whoa absolutely in the same boat. So fickle and can't pin down an interest - but now I've lost most motivation to even take up interest in anything altogether.
    - strangegecko 9y ago
      Well, tbh I don't experience it as lack of interest, I just struggle to keep up with everything. I prioritize work because not earning money isn't an option yet. That combined with my general depression and lack of support pretty much takes all my energy. I have a little bit left here and there, but it's simply not enough to get far with anything. It's very discouraging to start anything because it instantly feels overwhelming and I know I have more must do queued up that I'm deprioritizing to get this technically optional thing done. How can I read for hours in a day if I need to do house keeping stuff, send bills to insurance for reimbursement that are a year old, get that health checkup done, ... and so on. So much stuff to do. I don't know why I experience life like this. Everyone seems to have so much discretionary time to spend, especially if they do as little as I do.
  - olingern 9y ago
    I've suffered and still suffer from a lot same in the past. I hope sharing what's helped me can help someone else who feels like theirs so much to do / learn, but starting never happens. For me, it's often been a result of procrastination but, just in the past couple of years, have I began to understand the source of the procrastination. My issue was fear. Fear that I would fail learning [_whatever new thing_], or not reach a deep enough state of meditation. So, my fear was compounded with some judgement of my ability. At the moment, I'm practicing what I call "lowering the barrier to entry" and shelving perfectionism. I used to dream of progress as the grandiose "a-ha" moments; however, the reality is that progress is made up of many small moments over time. As much as it pains me to suggest "agile for your life," I have found some success in having a personal backlog and trying to determine what matters to me most. It's the kind of thing life coaches charge you a lot of money to tackle, but most engineers / tech workers are accustomed to: - Decide the project's top 10 priorities - Place a value on each - Determine their effort - Break each down into subtasks - Plan a chunk of work - Start I would also ask yourself where your motivation lies. Is it extrinsic or intrinsic. What inspires you to learn ML or React? I struggled with learning music for a long time because it always felt like something I was "supposed" to do. I still want to, but I have to come to terms with the source of that motivation. Living is as easy as being "here," yet that's paradoxically hard for our stimulus driven brains. I've found slowing down, tasting things, feeling textures, and listening more have made me more aware and present. If you ever feel dead inside, deploy on Friday at 5. Finally, I'll add all of this is easier to type and intellectualize than it is to live. To me, it often feels like a constant fight of putting time into the things I value to grow as I envision myself X months / years into the future.
petervm 9y ago
Here's some advice from a fellow beginner. After many failed attempts to make it stick, what worked for me was a combination of two things: - Reading about meditation in general just to learn more about it out of curiosity, not necessarily looking for instructions. This helped create a mental model of what it entailed, what to expect, what to look for. I read different books over the years, but I really like how Sam Harris describes his experience with it in his podcast. - This app: https://insighttimer.com/ https://insighttimer.com/ I've tried multiple apps but this one really made the difference for me. There are thousands of meditations to choose from, you can filter by duration, and there's a bit of gamification too. Another important thing, there's no "meditation course" to follow - you just search a meditation session that looks right for your mood and the time you have and that's it. These features combined removed all the friction I always found as a beginner. At first I started with only 5 to 10 minutes every morning, guided meditation with breathing exercises. As time went by, I felt I was improving in gaining control of the experience and started doing longer sessions with just soft music as background. Make it a daily routine, start small, do your best but don't be too hard on yourself.

Florin_Andrei 9y ago

The plasticity of the brain is tremendous. I would not be surprised if it turns out that long-term meditation and other techniques not only reverse damage from depression completely, but eventually leave their own signature changes (which are beneficial) on the brain's structure.

conjectures 9y ago
Oh they do leave a trace. Plenty of neuroimaging papers I've not read are on long term meditators. There's a good Sam Harris ep. on this topic. https://samharris.org/podcasts/111-science-meditation/ https://samharris.org/podcasts/111-science-meditation/

tekkk 9y ago

I am agreeing with the other comment(s) here asking if you could explain further how has meditation specifically helped you? And what/how do you meditate? I too feel that there's another happy universe inside my head were I to distract myself to believe in another reality. But it's just biological facts that come to maul me and digesting uncomfortable thoughts by yourself is not very efficient way of solving the issue. I am not living up to my potential and the momentary voices, although painful, are a reminder to me that I have to change something to feel good about myself. I think in the heart of it is the need for a constant validation through something, other people's love and affection mostly, that you can feel that your life is worth living. In the sense same thing (maybe) that you can do with meditation and keep those positive neural pathways from growing shut.

trevyn 9y ago
I’m not a fan of meditation, but recognizing that you can actually choose how to feel can be very empowering. I suspect that some people get locked in a catch-22 like the following: 1) Because they feel down, they empathize with other people who feel down, and find it personally important to be just, helpful, extra considerate, and thoughtful toward others. 2) Because of this, any indication of injustice or discomfort feels like a personal affront to their values and identity. 3) Any anger or pain resulting from this causes a reaffirmation of #1, and the cycle is reinforced.
- ada1981 9y ago
  Yes. Learning how to unhook from other peoples trauma and pain was really critical in my recovery. I realized that very often the charge we feel to dig in and solve someone else's issue is often linked to our own unhealed past. Ironically, it's when we heal ourselves that we can actually be of the highest service to those who are hurting.
  - icc97 9y ago
    > Ironically, it's when we heal ourselves that we can actually be of the highest service to those who are hurting. I think it's a two fold improvement, you stop being an emotional burden to others who worry about you and you are also more able to support them with their other worries.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

meesterdude 9y ago

My experience with meditation has allowed me to be more accepting of my emotions, beyond just happiness - oddly enough, being willing to be unhappy has made me happier. But there are times I am rightfully sad and I allow those feelings to be felt and let go. Maybe for you there is a lot of untapped happiness - by all means, ride that wave if you've got it. I had to figure out that I don't have that, my ocean moves with different currents.

leot 9y ago
> oddly enough, being willing to be unhappy has made me happier. Suppressing, fighting, and avoiding feelings usually strengthens them. By contrast, calm compassionate and curious observation will often allow them to dissipate "on their own". Deal with bad feelings like you deal with an angry person: listen seriously. Often they just want to be heard.

psyc 9y ago

Same here. I tried every medication, and saw dozens of psychiatrists and therapists. Nothing helped. I started meditating daily, as well as consuming various ‘gurus’ like Tolle and Sadhguru. Depression lifted steadily over a period of several months as I learned to stop thinking about myself. I’ve been ok to happy for 2 years.

slothtrop 9y ago
"learned to stop thinking about myself" -- what does this even mean? Happiness is entirely about yourself.
- psyc 9y ago
  ruminating. thinking unproductive / judging thoughts. whatever

BlytheSchuma 9y ago

"Have a happy life!" News flash arbo! You're still depressed.

ProudNounDUzber 9y ago

"Have a happy life!" News flash arbo! You're still depressed.

WalterSear 9y ago

Meditation excerbated the anhedonic symptoms of my treatment resistant depression quite severely. Fortunately for me, it sent me back into treatment with a psychiatrist that put me on the only class of antidepressants that actually works. (Recent studies in which they throw out everyone who does not respond to treatment, handily gaming the statistics in the process, notwithstanding.) I'm unlikely to ever see remission, but I'm definitely doing better now. Before anyone suggests it, I'm experienced enough to know I wasn't 'doing it wrong'. Being 'stuck' in the present is how depressive anhedonia feels.

nugga 9y ago
Having dealt with years of clinical depression and not getting much done beyond basic 'just in time' survival I want to say the following: Meditation may unlock or bring you closer to the bad stuff you've been avoiding dealing with that has been making you depressed or feel bad. You need to put in a lot of work and plow through it with persistence, even if in that moment you don't feel like it. It may be difficult if you feel like you're covered in mud and darkness but there is light at the end of the tunnel even if you can't see it at the moment.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  Yup, not that. I didn't need psychotherapy, and there was nothing it brought me closer too. I need help with organic depression.
  - nugga 9y ago
    I don't want to preach and I don't know your situation but I offer my perspective regardless. I may be talking completely past you because I'm not familiar with the term organic depression, and that's ok, maybe someone else will find this helpful. I grant there may be some mechanism that can be fixed alleviated by chemicals acting on the body but everything is connected, body-mind-soul. As far as I can tell, depression is in essence a negative feedback loop of bad thoughts that flood your brain and body incessantly creating negativity and sluggishness that further shape your thoughts and behaviour. A depressed person may not even realize their mind may be constantly telling them they suck or they're not worthy or whatever, but that is, as all thoughts and emotions are, illusionary in the sense that you don't have to take that as your own. You don't have to associate your being or identify as that chatter or the phenomenon passing through that body. You're purer and more beautiful and more deserving of love than that. Thoughts can have tremendous energy especially if you get provoked by or stuck to them. What prolonged persistent meditation practice (say at least 2x30 min per day) may help one achieve is a sort of mental clarity or non separateness from/non attachment to thoughts, seeing how the mind really works.

likeabbas 9y ago

What sort of meditation do you do? I tend to do a bit of "focus on your breath" meditation for 5 minutes at a time throughout the day, but I feel like I'm missing something deeper