4 ms·

Sadly, this is how our industry even if we're in the top employees. For a while, I was telling people that I worked at a place that didn't act like that... An

Sadly, this is how our industry even if we're in the top employees. For a while, I was telling people that I worked at a place that didn't act like that... And then they started, too. Now, I just decide if I'm happy making what I'm making. If I'm ever not, I'll change jobs.

scarface74 9y ago
I'm completely over working full time salaried jobs. I'm probably working my last full time job for awhile unless a company pays me way above market wages. I'm contract only. I get benefits through my wife's job so what's the point? Why shouldn't I get paid for every hour I work?
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  This is why I'm big in favor of Universal Health Care. I'd like to do that too, but I need the insurance. And I've not got a spouse that can help with that :(
- maerF0x0 9y ago
  just to play devil's advocate. Why should you get paid for time at all? Why not only for value delivered? You dont pay the grocery store based on how long you're in the store or how long each item took to shelve. You pay for the value delivered (approximately the goods in your basket). So why should you get paid for hours that deliver no value? Or to make it a spectrum, why should you get paid a fixed rate for hours where you deliver less than the fixed rate of value?
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    Cause time is really what I'm giving the company. And time is extremely limited; I only get 24 hours of it a day, only 7 days of it a week, etc.
    - mhluongo 9y ago
      The company wants values. You want time. It's a relationship for mutual benefit.
    - maerF0x0 9y ago
      Yeah that does get tricky when a job says "OK, you gave the value that you ought and it only took you 6 hours? OK, then give me more value in the next 2 hours, but without additional compensation."
  - scarface74 9y ago
    I actually agree. As a salaried employee, most of the time I look for a jobs that I barely have the requirements to get my foot in the door. That's the only way I can learn. If it takes me 12 hours to do a task that would only take me 8 hours if I had the experience in that technology, I don't mind working 12 hours to deliver 8 hours worth of work. The few stints of contracting I have had, I knew close to 100% of the technologies I am working in. If not, I wouldn't bill for learning time.
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    > Why not only for value delivered? Propose a good way to measure that. I tend to agree with you, but in so many companies, what you deliver often gets impacted by so many other decisions that the final 'value' of a project is minimal, but it's because of decisions outside your control. If people only paid me based on the value they got out of what I delivered, many would find a way to weight the measuring to leave me short. "Hollywood accounting" springs to mind - blockbuster movies somehow lose money.
    - maerF0x0 9y ago
      Just to be clear about the discussion I am referring to the value _deliver_ not the consumption/utilization of said value. to continue the analogy When I buy an apple from safeway, I pay $1 irrespective if I eat it.
      - mgkimsal 9y ago
        in almost all cases, what you deliver has no value on its own. it only has value in the context of business operating a certain way. to your apple analogy... you might pay $1 whether you eat it or not, but if you had no intention of eating it you wouldn't buy it in the first place. You had some expectation of doing something with it - eating it, cooking it for yourself, cooking it in some other dish to sell to others, etc.

scarface74 9y ago

I'm completely over working full time salaried jobs. I'm probably working my last full time job for awhile unless a company pays me way above market wages. I'm contract only. I get benefits through my wife's job so what's the point? Why shouldn't I get paid for every hour I work?

s73v3r_ 9y ago
This is why I'm big in favor of Universal Health Care. I'd like to do that too, but I need the insurance. And I've not got a spouse that can help with that :(
maerF0x0 9y ago
just to play devil's advocate. Why should you get paid for time at all? Why not only for value delivered? You dont pay the grocery store based on how long you're in the store or how long each item took to shelve. You pay for the value delivered (approximately the goods in your basket). So why should you get paid for hours that deliver no value? Or to make it a spectrum, why should you get paid a fixed rate for hours where you deliver less than the fixed rate of value?
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  Cause time is really what I'm giving the company. And time is extremely limited; I only get 24 hours of it a day, only 7 days of it a week, etc.
  - mhluongo 9y ago
    The company wants values. You want time. It's a relationship for mutual benefit.
  - maerF0x0 9y ago
    Yeah that does get tricky when a job says "OK, you gave the value that you ought and it only took you 6 hours? OK, then give me more value in the next 2 hours, but without additional compensation."
- scarface74 9y ago
  I actually agree. As a salaried employee, most of the time I look for a jobs that I barely have the requirements to get my foot in the door. That's the only way I can learn. If it takes me 12 hours to do a task that would only take me 8 hours if I had the experience in that technology, I don't mind working 12 hours to deliver 8 hours worth of work. The few stints of contracting I have had, I knew close to 100% of the technologies I am working in. If not, I wouldn't bill for learning time.
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  > Why not only for value delivered? Propose a good way to measure that. I tend to agree with you, but in so many companies, what you deliver often gets impacted by so many other decisions that the final 'value' of a project is minimal, but it's because of decisions outside your control. If people only paid me based on the value they got out of what I delivered, many would find a way to weight the measuring to leave me short. "Hollywood accounting" springs to mind - blockbuster movies somehow lose money.
  - maerF0x0 9y ago
    Just to be clear about the discussion I am referring to the value _deliver_ not the consumption/utilization of said value. to continue the analogy When I buy an apple from safeway, I pay $1 irrespective if I eat it.
    - mgkimsal 9y ago
      in almost all cases, what you deliver has no value on its own. it only has value in the context of business operating a certain way. to your apple analogy... you might pay $1 whether you eat it or not, but if you had no intention of eating it you wouldn't buy it in the first place. You had some expectation of doing something with it - eating it, cooking it for yourself, cooking it in some other dish to sell to others, etc.