4 ms·

My Apple //e is still running. My Newton 2100 is still running. My iPhone 5s is still running on original batter (on iOS 11 to boot). My MBP 2011 is still runni

My Apple //e is still running. My Newton 2100 is still running. My iPhone 5s is still running on original batter (on iOS 11 to boot). My MBP 2011 is still running (albeit with new SSD). Sadly my Macintosh Portable isn't running but that's only because the batteries are dead and I haven't refurbished them yet. No other hardware I've ever purchased has run for that long. My Palm Pilot is dead. My Treo is dead. No one who says Apple builds in planned obsolescence has probably never used any Apple hardware.

jaysonelliot 9y ago
I still have my original Apple ][+ from high school, purchased used in 1986, originally manufactured in 1982. It performs just as well as it did in 1986, even including the floppy drive, a mechanical device that by all rights should have died decades ago. (Then again, my Atari 2600 still works fine, too.) Conversely, every Apple product I've owned since the late '90s has been buggy in one way or another, had hardware issues, and generally has not stood the test of time. As mandatory updates and cloud-based software have become the norm, things have gotten even worse. To be fair, machines are far more complex now. A lot of the rock-solid reliability of early Apple products came from their relative simplicity. But I would not say they've built robust products ever since. They certainly believe in planned obsolescence. The perennial changing of port standards, abandoning of backwards compatibility, and lack of support for older machines is an Apple hallmark. I'm not saying they're worse than their competitors, but they definitely adhere to planned obsolescence.
220V_USKettle 9y ago
My anecdote: Macbook G4 - still works fine, boots up fast, resume/sleep very fast Macbook Pro 2010 - battery holds about 30 minute charge iPhone 4/4S - batteries are fine, never replaced iPhone 5S - on my 4th battery
flomo 9y ago
I have a Newton 2000 that turns on, but the touch screen matrix isn't working properly, apparently a common issue. Also had a Quadra 950 at one point loaded with 1990s game dev stuff in storage. Pulled it out, it wouldn't turn on and the plastic had turned into the color of cigarette smoke, so got rid of it. Sometimes even good shit breaks.
- classichasclass 9y ago
  I bet the Q950's problem is the capacitors. Those aren't too hard to replace.
wnissen 9y ago
Apple is great at getting you to buy new hardware. This is, as you have found, quite different from actual obsolescence.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  Right. My 2013 MBP had a "charging circuit" issue. The laptop worked fine, the battery was fine, it ran on AC. It just could not allow a charge to the battery. Me: No problem. I'm sure it's no more than maybe $200, parts and labor. Apple Store: So because we have to replace x, y and z to do this, you're looking at $820. Two thirds of the original purchase price of the laptop to repair the ability to _charge its battery_.
  - Decade 9y ago
    My 2013 MBP had a charging circuit issue, too. I brought it to Apple, and they said replace most of the internals, $800. I took it to a third-party authorized Genius Bar (Create More on 3rd St), and they replaced just the charging circuit for about $200.
    - FireBeyond 9y ago
      My frustration was with that, and then they were very eager to say "Hey, it's going to cost you this, how about we start looking at a new Mac?", a very used car sales vibe.
ken 9y ago
I don't believe Apple designs for "planned obsolescence", but you appear to have been cautious or lucky enough to buy mature products, not new product lines -- in some cases, the very final iteration of a design. I own 1 early-model and 2 first-of-its-line Apple products from the 2000's, and they've all had quality issues and are no longer usable. In every case, the flawed feature was improved or simply removed in subsequent models. It's a shame, because I liked them all more than what I replaced them with, apart from the reliability trouble. On average, I don't think Apple is any worse than any other manufacturer, but they do tend to be more enthusiastic about trying new materials and designs and manufacturing techniques. Perhaps there are people who run out and buy a completely new model on day 1, and discover it's not as robust as the 5-year-old one they were using before (i.e., sample bias). I was anxiously awaiting the second iteration of the black cylinder Mac Pro, simply because I'm paranoid about buying a first-generation product. Now I'm going to have to wait even longer, because once again there's going to be a completely new design.
tooltalk 9y ago
Your milages vary, but in my case: * 2012 rMacBook Pro 15": a major GPU defect found just as the 1-yr manufacturer's warranty ran out. Had to pay $300+ for repair although it was clearly a manufacturer's fault. After a threat of class-action lawsuit -- there were similar class-action lawsuits in motion for older MacBooks models made in 2007, 2009, 201x as well -- Apple started a repair/recall program in 2014 and they refunded my repair cost. * 2 x iBooks in my college days: none of them lasted longer than 1 year; all failed due to some hardware problems. * iPhone 3GS: didn't know how laggy it was until I upgraded to the 4Gs. Oneplus 5T is my current phone, with Samsung Note 3 as backup -- which was used for 4 years. * 1999 Dell Inspiron: in service for 6 years and still usable. dropped it several times on concrete floor. Virtually indestructible, but I wanted to get a new hardware (see my 2 x iBooks). Required no repair or replacement despite heavy use; in my Manhattan mini-storage now. * 2008 Dell Inspiron: cost $350 (with some special offer from Discover Card) and used it until I got my 2012 rMacBook. Virtually indestructible; required no repair or replacement; still running and my backup laptop. Based on my experience, Dell XPS 15" is going to be my next workhorse. As far as smartphones are concerned, many years ago before his death, Steve Jobs claimed to have "cracked" the integrated TV business, but Apple decided not jump into it -- because their product lifespan is too long, especially compared to iPhone's 2-yr short lifespan. The iPhone's 2 year short lifespan in turn was in large part determined by 2 year contract subsidies in the US. Likewise, you see in Horace's second graph that the iPhone lifespan increased as US carriers phased out 2 year-contract subsidized model in favor of monthly payments with no subsidy. I'm very disinclined to believe that Apple's QC improved so much in the past 4 years that the iPhone's lifespan nearly tripled and, contrary to a few fanboi's anecdotal stories about Apple's stellar hardware QC, I'm willing to bet a few pennies that the overall lifespan trend holds the same for other phone manufacturers as well. In short, I think it's mostly it's mobile carriers' subsidy (or lack thereof) that changed consumers' buying habit and iPhone lifespan, not Apple's super durable hardware or quality control.
- stinos 9y ago
  Dell isn't usually too bad indeed. My GF just retired a Lattitude after about 10years of usage, it was still running, but became a bit heavy in comparision with modern hardware, and the screen also isn't exactly all that. My mom's 7 year old Lattitude just needed a new keyboard but ok for the rest. My XPS15z is now about 6 years I think and I'm still very happy with it. My main job is for an all-Dell shop, average age of the unix workstations is well over 5 years. Sometimes needs new RAM, sometimes a power supply replacement due to caps, but no real problems for the rest. Those are all higher end machines though, not sure how well the cheaper ones hold up with heavy usage in general.

jaysonelliot 9y ago

I still have my original Apple ][+ from high school, purchased used in 1986, originally manufactured in 1982. It performs just as well as it did in 1986, even including the floppy drive, a mechanical device that by all rights should have died decades ago. (Then again, my Atari 2600 still works fine, too.) Conversely, every Apple product I've owned since the late '90s has been buggy in one way or another, had hardware issues, and generally has not stood the test of time. As mandatory updates and cloud-based software have become the norm, things have gotten even worse. To be fair, machines are far more complex now. A lot of the rock-solid reliability of early Apple products came from their relative simplicity. But I would not say they've built robust products ever since. They certainly believe in planned obsolescence. The perennial changing of port standards, abandoning of backwards compatibility, and lack of support for older machines is an Apple hallmark. I'm not saying they're worse than their competitors, but they definitely adhere to planned obsolescence.

220V_USKettle 9y ago

My anecdote: Macbook G4 - still works fine, boots up fast, resume/sleep very fast Macbook Pro 2010 - battery holds about 30 minute charge iPhone 4/4S - batteries are fine, never replaced iPhone 5S - on my 4th battery

flomo 9y ago

I have a Newton 2000 that turns on, but the touch screen matrix isn't working properly, apparently a common issue. Also had a Quadra 950 at one point loaded with 1990s game dev stuff in storage. Pulled it out, it wouldn't turn on and the plastic had turned into the color of cigarette smoke, so got rid of it. Sometimes even good shit breaks.

classichasclass 9y ago
I bet the Q950's problem is the capacitors. Those aren't too hard to replace.

wnissen 9y ago

Apple is great at getting you to buy new hardware. This is, as you have found, quite different from actual obsolescence.

FireBeyond 9y ago
Right. My 2013 MBP had a "charging circuit" issue. The laptop worked fine, the battery was fine, it ran on AC. It just could not allow a charge to the battery. Me: No problem. I'm sure it's no more than maybe $200, parts and labor. Apple Store: So because we have to replace x, y and z to do this, you're looking at $820. Two thirds of the original purchase price of the laptop to repair the ability to _charge its battery_.
- Decade 9y ago
  My 2013 MBP had a charging circuit issue, too. I brought it to Apple, and they said replace most of the internals, $800. I took it to a third-party authorized Genius Bar (Create More on 3rd St), and they replaced just the charging circuit for about $200.
  - FireBeyond 9y ago
    My frustration was with that, and then they were very eager to say "Hey, it's going to cost you this, how about we start looking at a new Mac?", a very used car sales vibe.

ken 9y ago

I don't believe Apple designs for "planned obsolescence", but you appear to have been cautious or lucky enough to buy mature products, not new product lines -- in some cases, the very final iteration of a design. I own 1 early-model and 2 first-of-its-line Apple products from the 2000's, and they've all had quality issues and are no longer usable. In every case, the flawed feature was improved or simply removed in subsequent models. It's a shame, because I liked them all more than what I replaced them with, apart from the reliability trouble. On average, I don't think Apple is any worse than any other manufacturer, but they do tend to be more enthusiastic about trying new materials and designs and manufacturing techniques. Perhaps there are people who run out and buy a completely new model on day 1, and discover it's not as robust as the 5-year-old one they were using before (i.e., sample bias). I was anxiously awaiting the second iteration of the black cylinder Mac Pro, simply because I'm paranoid about buying a first-generation product. Now I'm going to have to wait even longer, because once again there's going to be a completely new design.

tooltalk 9y ago

Your milages vary, but in my case: * 2012 rMacBook Pro 15": a major GPU defect found just as the 1-yr manufacturer's warranty ran out. Had to pay $300+ for repair although it was clearly a manufacturer's fault. After a threat of class-action lawsuit -- there were similar class-action lawsuits in motion for older MacBooks models made in 2007, 2009, 201x as well -- Apple started a repair/recall program in 2014 and they refunded my repair cost. * 2 x iBooks in my college days: none of them lasted longer than 1 year; all failed due to some hardware problems. * iPhone 3GS: didn't know how laggy it was until I upgraded to the 4Gs. Oneplus 5T is my current phone, with Samsung Note 3 as backup -- which was used for 4 years. * 1999 Dell Inspiron: in service for 6 years and still usable. dropped it several times on concrete floor. Virtually indestructible, but I wanted to get a new hardware (see my 2 x iBooks). Required no repair or replacement despite heavy use; in my Manhattan mini-storage now. * 2008 Dell Inspiron: cost $350 (with some special offer from Discover Card) and used it until I got my 2012 rMacBook. Virtually indestructible; required no repair or replacement; still running and my backup laptop. Based on my experience, Dell XPS 15" is going to be my next workhorse. As far as smartphones are concerned, many years ago before his death, Steve Jobs claimed to have "cracked" the integrated TV business, but Apple decided not jump into it -- because their product lifespan is too long, especially compared to iPhone's 2-yr short lifespan. The iPhone's 2 year short lifespan in turn was in large part determined by 2 year contract subsidies in the US. Likewise, you see in Horace's second graph that the iPhone lifespan increased as US carriers phased out 2 year-contract subsidized model in favor of monthly payments with no subsidy. I'm very disinclined to believe that Apple's QC improved so much in the past 4 years that the iPhone's lifespan nearly tripled and, contrary to a few fanboi's anecdotal stories about Apple's stellar hardware QC, I'm willing to bet a few pennies that the overall lifespan trend holds the same for other phone manufacturers as well. In short, I think it's mostly it's mobile carriers' subsidy (or lack thereof) that changed consumers' buying habit and iPhone lifespan, not Apple's super durable hardware or quality control.

stinos 9y ago
Dell isn't usually too bad indeed. My GF just retired a Lattitude after about 10years of usage, it was still running, but became a bit heavy in comparision with modern hardware, and the screen also isn't exactly all that. My mom's 7 year old Lattitude just needed a new keyboard but ok for the rest. My XPS15z is now about 6 years I think and I'm still very happy with it. My main job is for an all-Dell shop, average age of the unix workstations is well over 5 years. Sometimes needs new RAM, sometimes a power supply replacement due to caps, but no real problems for the rest. Those are all higher end machines though, not sure how well the cheaper ones hold up with heavy usage in general.