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1) 2/3 of devices Apple has ever sold remain in use today [0] 2) The average lifespan of an Apple device is 4.25 years That should put to rest the "Apple's pl

1) 2/3 of devices Apple has ever sold remain in use today [0] 2) The average lifespan of an Apple device is 4.25 years That should put to rest the "Apple's planned obsolescence" narrative, but I doubt it will. I think it has always been the case that Apple cares about building really good hardware that lasts. That's not to say that they don't make mistakes (they do), but they care most about making something good, regardless of the "business case." On the most recent earnings call, several investors had questions about how Apple's new battery replacement program would affect business. For example, would the cost bring down profits, would the replacement prevent upgrades, etc. Tim's response was: >On the battery, Toni, we did not consider it in any way, shape, or form what it would do to upgrade rates. We did it because we thought it was the right thing to do for our customers. And sitting here today, I don’t know what effect it will have. And again, it was not in our thought process of deciding to do what we’ve done. [1] [0] - http://www.asymco.com/2018/02/27/the-number/ http://www.asymco.com/2018/02/27/the-number/ (this does not include iPods, I don't think) [1] - https://sixcolors.com/post/2018/02/this-is-tim-transcript-of-apples-q1-2018-earnings-call/ https://sixcolors.com/post/2018/02/this-is-tim-transcript-of...

Analemma_ 9y ago
I will never understand why Apple gets all the "planned obsolescence!" flak, when I still know people using iPhone 4S's and 2011 iPads and iOS devices get software updates for 3-5 years. You're lucky if your Android phone gets two years of updates, and I don't there has ever been one with three.
- mfoy_ 9y ago
  I bought my Samsung Galaxy S5 in early/mid 2015 and it's still going "strong", although a bit laggy at times. The only issue is the battery has started swelling (again). I think I'll upgrade this time instead of replacing the battery. My point being, I'm about to hit the three year mark on an Android phone.
  - vondur 9y ago
    Yes, but do you have access to the latest version of Android?
    - evanlivingston 9y ago
      Yes
      - Spartan-S63 9y ago
        No, it doesn't. Not through the OEM. The last version of Android was Marshmallow which is two major versions behind the most current. Sure, you can flash it yourself to the latest version, but there's no guarantee that it'll work. In my book, not having support from the OEM on the latest possible version of Android that can be loaded on your device does not count as having access.
        evanlivingston 9y ago
        That completely counts as having access. Lenovo doesn't provide OEM support for ubuntu on my thinkpad, but that doens't mean to I don't have access to it.
      - jvzr 9y ago
        Through a custom ROM or something akin, I imagine? Not through regular channels, such as a regular software update notification received on the old version Not exactly the most consumer-friendly way to get software updates. That's not comparable to how Apple does it
    - vetinari 9y ago
      Android update is different when compared to iOS update. You don't need latest Android to get the latest apps. Google will not withhold the latest Chrome or Maps or Gmail or Youtube from you, unless you update to latest OS release.
    - mfoy_ 9y ago
      Apparently not.
- ksk 9y ago
  You never understand because you're not affected by it, or don't understand it or think people are simply lying. The 4S turned into an unusable phone after all the updates. I know because I had one and had to get rid of it after it Apple updates slowed it down.
  - Angostura 9y ago
    That's odd. My daughter is still using hers.
    - 220V_USKettle 9y ago
      Is she using iOS 6?
    - ksk 9y ago
      Why is it odd? It has been my experience with all iphones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSkZQ3XNW58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSkZQ3XNW58
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      People accept all kinds of barely functional stuff.
- 220V_USKettle 9y ago
  I would love to be able to still use my 4S, but cannot install apps or upgrade iOS. Awesome hardware though. Built like a tank.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    I have a coworker using either a 4 or 4S and I saw him install a new app on it last week. Are you referring specifically to apps that no longer support old versions of iOS? As far as I know the App Store maintains compatibility with old iPhones and allows them to download and install stuff just like new ones.
    - 220V_USKettle 9y ago
      That is not my experience at all. I have an original iPad, an original iPad mini, several iPhone 4 and 4s.
      - versteegen 9y ago
        Well, I use an iPhone 4S running iOS 8 and can install apps from the app store.
  - akoster 9y ago
    My mom is still happily using her original iPad mini with iOS 9. Some apps these days are not compatible with it but asurprising number are still targeting iOS 9. Lots of popular apps such as Telegram, Netflix, Overdrive books support iOS 9 and still get updates (unsure for how much longer). Others like the Target app, require later iOS versions and force her to use an older version, which tend to still be functional, though without the latest features.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      Even if they don't get updates. The older versions should still work. I downloaded the older version of Netflix "the last compatible version" for my first gen iPad running iOS 5 and it still works.
- astrodust 9y ago
  2010 iMac, 2012 Mac Mini, 2013 iPhone 5S. All of them are running the latest version of the OS without problems. The only problem with the two computers was a lack of SSD but a kit from OWC fixed that for both of them.
  - thisacctforreal 9y ago
    iPhone 5Ss are great to keep around, you can generate an ECC private key inside the secure enclave (albeit only using the NIST P256 curve). Using Krypton[0] or your own software you can use the phone as a hardware private key. Krypton includes support for SSH, gpg signed git commits, and soon generic gpg signing[1], all backed by TouchID or your passphrase[2]. Make sure to setup Krypton with the "Nist P256 (Secure Enclave)" curve. Private keys generated in the Secure Enclave are only possible to extract using a zero-day in the Secure Enclave coprocessor. [0] https://krypt.co https://krypt.co [1] https://github.com/kryptco/krypton-ios/pull/95 https://github.com/kryptco/krypton-ios/pull/95 [2] Protip: iOS passphrases consisting of only digits will use a keypad on the unlock screen.
- Lafcadio 9y ago
  Hey if y'all don't mind ill use this thread to ask for a recommendation. I'm using a 2009 macbook (a1342) that I upgraded with SSD, extra RAM etc. When it passes, I planning on replacing it with another old macbook. Are following models as reliable? What about macbook air ? I'm worried because the white macbook was easy to repair and upgrade, the others seem much harder to take apart.
  - LukeTowers 9y ago
    MBP mid 2012 13 inch is what I would recommend
ksk 9y ago
>That should put to rest the "Apple's planned obsolescence" narrative, but I doubt it will. I think it has always been the case that Apple cares about building really good hardware that lasts. That's not to say that they don't make mistakes (they do), but they care most about making something good, regardless of the "business case." I hope it doesn't. I have experienced it first hand with my 4S which became horribly laggy and unusable after all of the iOS updates, and I had no way of downgrading iOS and returning it to the factory state. Also regarding the battery issue, call me a cynic but there is no way that this wasn't PR driven. Apple took a PR hit because they sneakily slowed down the phone instead of informing the user that their battery is dying and that they should get it fixed. Obviously because it would highlight the flaws in their design (which other smartphones might or might not have too). I'm not an Apple shareholder so I don't care about their profits at all, and hopefully neither should anyone else.
- oflannabhra 9y ago
  I don't doubt that you had issues. I had my own issues with an iPhone 6. I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize Apple, and I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes. I don't even care if the replacement program is PR driven--It's still the right thing to do! What I am saying is: Apple seems to be holding to their guiding principles (sometimes with missteps), as opposed to giving in to shareholder pressure to increase short term profits at expense of a long term relationship with their customers. And, supporting 1.3 billion devices is an enormous engineering feat.
  - sametmax 9y ago
    Making an update that breaks the home button, and refusing to fix it ("we can't, just buy a new phone") while rooted phones have community update that fix it is not "making a mistake". It's a con.
    - saagarjha 9y ago
      Which update is this?
Y-bar 9y ago
> That should put to rest the "Apple's planned obsolescence" narrative, but I doubt it will. After less than 20 months my iPhone SE was at 45% of the original CPU speed it was marketed as. This was by design. A conscious decision by multiple people in the know, who instead of selling me a device that could last four years sold me a device that lasted one and a half and kept quiet about it until called out on it. I never believed the planned obsolescence narrative, until I experienced it the past months.
- Angostura 9y ago
  ... and then you replaced the battery
  - asendra 9y ago
    Because it was found out that they were doing the battery thing. If not, he and everyone else would have continued suffering a poor experience without knowing that it was a battery problem, or bought a new iPhone. I know that’s what happened to me with my 6s at least.
    - chipotle_coyote 9y ago
      My beef with the popular narrative on this isn't that Apple shouldn't be criticized for the way they handled it -- it's that what they did that was wrong seems to me to be terrible communication, not some kind of nefarious plan to make everyone buy new phones. People seem to be tacitly dismissing the problem the CPU throttling ostensibly fixes -- iPhones with worn batteries just shutting down instantly without warning when an application asks for more power than the battery's now capable of delivering -- but I've experienced it. It's a real problem. And while it's a subjective call as to whether that's more infuriating than CPU throttling is, I can tell you, it's really infuriating. And it's not some kind of crazy only-Apple thing; it's a problem with battery technology. It happens with Android phones, too, and their "solution" is what Apple's was until they rolled out the throttling: nothing. Eventually you figure out you have a battery problem because your phone keeps spontaneously shutting down! Yay. If we're going to criticize Apple for this, maybe it should be for making this change without notifying users. The iPhone can presumably determine when its battery is sufficiently worn that it's facing the choice between CPU throttling and spontaneous shutdowns, and it should let the user know when it crosses that line. But the notion that Apple is deliberately crippling phones to get you to buy new ones faster has always been...odd. They do want you to buy new phones, to be sure, but they want you to buy new phones from them. If you stop trusting them, you're less likely to going to do that, unless you're very heavily "into" the Apple ecosystem -- which most consumers arguably aren't. (At least half my friends with iPhones rarely install applications other than Spotify, Telegram, and the occasional game -- and I live in Silicon Valley. These folks aren't Mac users, either, and so I suspect they don't feel very much lock-in pressure at all.)
lisper 9y ago
> Apple cares about building really good hardware that lasts That used to be true. Nowadays they seem to care more about building hardware that looks cool, is as thin as physically possible, and is full of wizzy features that people may or may not care about (like face-unlock, or whatever they call it).
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > is as thin as physically possible There are good reasons for pursuing thinness. One, it naturally puts you (through accumulated R&D, supply chain and design know-how) on the leading edge of miniaturisation, a resiliant multi-decades long trend in technology. Pushing for a smaller laptop made possible the iPhone; pushing for a smaller iPhone made possible the Apple Watch, et cetera. (Thinner, lighter devices also have a demonstrated ability to increase usage, by being lighter to hold up.) It’s a design philosophy built into a longer-term strategy.
  - lisper 9y ago
    There's a difference between pursuing thinness in R&D and releasing a thin product that cannot be repaired in the field. True story: the other day I was on a trip when my wife's Macbook Air started to rock back and forth on the surface it was sitting on. The battery had failed. It was still working, i.e. providing power, but it had started to bulge. (This turns out to be a known problem.) There was so much pressure that the keyboard and bottom case were visibly deformed. But it was impossible for me to open the case and get the battery out because I didn't have the right pentalobe screwdriver with me. Fortunately, we were able to find a Mac repair shop that was able to get the battery out before it caught fire or exploded. (But we were very lucky. We do a lot of traveling to places that lack this kind of infrastructure.) What they were not able to do was recycle the battery because they didn't have a replacement, so they could not open an official repair ticket. So we had to take the bad battery, still fully charged despite being blown up like a balloon, with us on an airplane so we could take it home and dispose of it properly. It's perfectly fine if Apple wants to offer products like this for people who want to trade off volume for field-repairability. What irks me is that Apple no longer offers any choice in this. My choices today are non-repariable, or Windows (or Linux, but that is not a viable option for my non-geek wife). Those are pretty sucky choices.
doorbumper 9y ago
If you're going to applaud apple for "doing the right thing for customers", it might be good to think about apple's history. When during the last decade has apple ever not tried to ignore severe hardware issues before they lost a lawsuit? Apple has mistreated customers for a long time. They can get away it because their customers have few high end alternatives. The truth is that they make calculated decisions whether ignoring the issue, or responding to the issue will be more beneficial to them financially and public opinion wise. This time they decided that the fallout from evidence of possible planned obsolescence—intentional or not—combined with the fact that a lost lawsuit was likely, and the fact that smartphone sales have fallen for the first time ever, would be financially more painful than compensating their customers.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
GeekyBear 9y ago
>That should put to rest the "Apple's planned obsolescence" narrative, but I doubt it will. That argument has never made much sense to me. If Apple wanted to force people to buy a new device, wouldn't it be much easier to simply stop providing OS and security patches after two years the way most of the Android device makers have traditionally done? How does providing four years of software support (on average) force users to buy a new device more quickly than providing two years of software support (on average)?
- gurkendoktor 9y ago
  Because a slow (but secure) device is a continuous and frustrating reminder that you need to buy a new phone. Whereas a fast (but unpatched) phone is a joy to use, except in the unlikely event that someone actually hacks you, and then it's not clear whether you would go buy another Apple device. I'm thankful that Apple is doing the right thing by patching older devices, but I also think it aligns with their financial incentives. And to be clear, I don't subscribe to the theory that Apple is intentionally slowing iOS down on older devices. But subjectively, the iPhone 4S struggles with iOS 9 the same way that the iPhone 5s struggles with iOS 11. Even if you work in IT, it's hard to fathom that iOS 11 looks and works the same as iOS 9, but requires a ~4x more powerful CPU to barely chug along[1]. Planned Obsolescence almost wins Occam's Razor here; I'm not surprised that so many people misinterpret the battery throttling thing. [1] https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks
  - GeekyBear 9y ago
    Interesting. The reviews at the time claimed that it was slower, but not slow. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/ios-11-on-the-iphone-5s-slower-but-not-quite-slow/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/ios-11-on-the-iphone...
    - gurkendoktor 9y ago
      I've seen these okay-ish numbers, but subjectively it was a crap experience (bad enough to buy an SE). It wasn't really app launch times that bothered me, though. Scrolling all around the OS "felt" (not sure how to measure it) like it was running way below 60 FPS, whereas everything was buttery smooth on iOS 10. And the OS seemed to only keep one or two apps in memory, ever. I suspect it might be because I only had 1GB of free storage, and iOS 11 was uploading and downloading cloud photos like crazy? Often I would take a picture, and by the time I wanted to send it via message ten seconds later, the phone had deleted the original it from my phone, and had to re-download it. I would gladly assume that I'm an outlier, but a friend with a 5s asked me for new phone recommendations right after updating to iOS 11, so there's at least two points of anecdata.

Analemma_ 9y ago

I will never understand why Apple gets all the "planned obsolescence!" flak, when I still know people using iPhone 4S's and 2011 iPads and iOS devices get software updates for 3-5 years. You're lucky if your Android phone gets two years of updates, and I don't there has ever been one with three.

mfoy_ 9y ago
I bought my Samsung Galaxy S5 in early/mid 2015 and it's still going "strong", although a bit laggy at times. The only issue is the battery has started swelling (again). I think I'll upgrade this time instead of replacing the battery. My point being, I'm about to hit the three year mark on an Android phone.
- vondur 9y ago
  Yes, but do you have access to the latest version of Android?
  - evanlivingston 9y ago
    Yes
    - Spartan-S63 9y ago
      No, it doesn't. Not through the OEM. The last version of Android was Marshmallow which is two major versions behind the most current. Sure, you can flash it yourself to the latest version, but there's no guarantee that it'll work. In my book, not having support from the OEM on the latest possible version of Android that can be loaded on your device does not count as having access.
      - evanlivingston 9y ago
        That completely counts as having access. Lenovo doesn't provide OEM support for ubuntu on my thinkpad, but that doens't mean to I don't have access to it.
    - jvzr 9y ago
      Through a custom ROM or something akin, I imagine? Not through regular channels, such as a regular software update notification received on the old version Not exactly the most consumer-friendly way to get software updates. That's not comparable to how Apple does it
  - vetinari 9y ago
    Android update is different when compared to iOS update. You don't need latest Android to get the latest apps. Google will not withhold the latest Chrome or Maps or Gmail or Youtube from you, unless you update to latest OS release.
  - mfoy_ 9y ago
    Apparently not.
ksk 9y ago
You never understand because you're not affected by it, or don't understand it or think people are simply lying. The 4S turned into an unusable phone after all the updates. I know because I had one and had to get rid of it after it Apple updates slowed it down.
- Angostura 9y ago
  That's odd. My daughter is still using hers.
  - 220V_USKettle 9y ago
    Is she using iOS 6?
  - ksk 9y ago
    Why is it odd? It has been my experience with all iphones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSkZQ3XNW58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSkZQ3XNW58
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    People accept all kinds of barely functional stuff.
220V_USKettle 9y ago
I would love to be able to still use my 4S, but cannot install apps or upgrade iOS. Awesome hardware though. Built like a tank.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  I have a coworker using either a 4 or 4S and I saw him install a new app on it last week. Are you referring specifically to apps that no longer support old versions of iOS? As far as I know the App Store maintains compatibility with old iPhones and allows them to download and install stuff just like new ones.
  - 220V_USKettle 9y ago
    That is not my experience at all. I have an original iPad, an original iPad mini, several iPhone 4 and 4s.
    - versteegen 9y ago
      Well, I use an iPhone 4S running iOS 8 and can install apps from the app store.
- akoster 9y ago
  My mom is still happily using her original iPad mini with iOS 9. Some apps these days are not compatible with it but asurprising number are still targeting iOS 9. Lots of popular apps such as Telegram, Netflix, Overdrive books support iOS 9 and still get updates (unsure for how much longer). Others like the Target app, require later iOS versions and force her to use an older version, which tend to still be functional, though without the latest features.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    Even if they don't get updates. The older versions should still work. I downloaded the older version of Netflix "the last compatible version" for my first gen iPad running iOS 5 and it still works.
astrodust 9y ago
2010 iMac, 2012 Mac Mini, 2013 iPhone 5S. All of them are running the latest version of the OS without problems. The only problem with the two computers was a lack of SSD but a kit from OWC fixed that for both of them.
- thisacctforreal 9y ago
  iPhone 5Ss are great to keep around, you can generate an ECC private key inside the secure enclave (albeit only using the NIST P256 curve). Using Krypton[0] or your own software you can use the phone as a hardware private key. Krypton includes support for SSH, gpg signed git commits, and soon generic gpg signing[1], all backed by TouchID or your passphrase[2]. Make sure to setup Krypton with the "Nist P256 (Secure Enclave)" curve. Private keys generated in the Secure Enclave are only possible to extract using a zero-day in the Secure Enclave coprocessor. [0] https://krypt.co https://krypt.co [1] https://github.com/kryptco/krypton-ios/pull/95 https://github.com/kryptco/krypton-ios/pull/95 [2] Protip: iOS passphrases consisting of only digits will use a keypad on the unlock screen.
Lafcadio 9y ago
Hey if y'all don't mind ill use this thread to ask for a recommendation. I'm using a 2009 macbook (a1342) that I upgraded with SSD, extra RAM etc. When it passes, I planning on replacing it with another old macbook. Are following models as reliable? What about macbook air ? I'm worried because the white macbook was easy to repair and upgrade, the others seem much harder to take apart.
- LukeTowers 9y ago
  MBP mid 2012 13 inch is what I would recommend

ksk 9y ago

>That should put to rest the "Apple's planned obsolescence" narrative, but I doubt it will. I think it has always been the case that Apple cares about building really good hardware that lasts. That's not to say that they don't make mistakes (they do), but they care most about making something good, regardless of the "business case." I hope it doesn't. I have experienced it first hand with my 4S which became horribly laggy and unusable after all of the iOS updates, and I had no way of downgrading iOS and returning it to the factory state. Also regarding the battery issue, call me a cynic but there is no way that this wasn't PR driven. Apple took a PR hit because they sneakily slowed down the phone instead of informing the user that their battery is dying and that they should get it fixed. Obviously because it would highlight the flaws in their design (which other smartphones might or might not have too). I'm not an Apple shareholder so I don't care about their profits at all, and hopefully neither should anyone else.

oflannabhra 9y ago
I don't doubt that you had issues. I had my own issues with an iPhone 6. I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize Apple, and I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes. I don't even care if the replacement program is PR driven--It's still the right thing to do! What I am saying is: Apple seems to be holding to their guiding principles (sometimes with missteps), as opposed to giving in to shareholder pressure to increase short term profits at expense of a long term relationship with their customers. And, supporting 1.3 billion devices is an enormous engineering feat.
- sametmax 9y ago
  Making an update that breaks the home button, and refusing to fix it ("we can't, just buy a new phone") while rooted phones have community update that fix it is not "making a mistake". It's a con.
  - saagarjha 9y ago
    Which update is this?

Y-bar 9y ago

> That should put to rest the "Apple's planned obsolescence" narrative, but I doubt it will. After less than 20 months my iPhone SE was at 45% of the original CPU speed it was marketed as. This was by design. A conscious decision by multiple people in the know, who instead of selling me a device that could last four years sold me a device that lasted one and a half and kept quiet about it until called out on it. I never believed the planned obsolescence narrative, until I experienced it the past months.

Angostura 9y ago
... and then you replaced the battery
- asendra 9y ago
  Because it was found out that they were doing the battery thing. If not, he and everyone else would have continued suffering a poor experience without knowing that it was a battery problem, or bought a new iPhone. I know that’s what happened to me with my 6s at least.
  - chipotle_coyote 9y ago
    My beef with the popular narrative on this isn't that Apple shouldn't be criticized for the way they handled it -- it's that what they did that was wrong seems to me to be terrible communication, not some kind of nefarious plan to make everyone buy new phones. People seem to be tacitly dismissing the problem the CPU throttling ostensibly fixes -- iPhones with worn batteries just shutting down instantly without warning when an application asks for more power than the battery's now capable of delivering -- but I've experienced it. It's a real problem. And while it's a subjective call as to whether that's more infuriating than CPU throttling is, I can tell you, it's really infuriating. And it's not some kind of crazy only-Apple thing; it's a problem with battery technology. It happens with Android phones, too, and their "solution" is what Apple's was until they rolled out the throttling: nothing. Eventually you figure out you have a battery problem because your phone keeps spontaneously shutting down! Yay. If we're going to criticize Apple for this, maybe it should be for making this change without notifying users. The iPhone can presumably determine when its battery is sufficiently worn that it's facing the choice between CPU throttling and spontaneous shutdowns, and it should let the user know when it crosses that line. But the notion that Apple is deliberately crippling phones to get you to buy new ones faster has always been...odd. They do want you to buy new phones, to be sure, but they want you to buy new phones from them. If you stop trusting them, you're less likely to going to do that, unless you're very heavily "into" the Apple ecosystem -- which most consumers arguably aren't. (At least half my friends with iPhones rarely install applications other than Spotify, Telegram, and the occasional game -- and I live in Silicon Valley. These folks aren't Mac users, either, and so I suspect they don't feel very much lock-in pressure at all.)

lisper 9y ago

> Apple cares about building really good hardware that lasts That used to be true. Nowadays they seem to care more about building hardware that looks cool, is as thin as physically possible, and is full of wizzy features that people may or may not care about (like face-unlock, or whatever they call it).

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> is as thin as physically possible There are good reasons for pursuing thinness. One, it naturally puts you (through accumulated R&D, supply chain and design know-how) on the leading edge of miniaturisation, a resiliant multi-decades long trend in technology. Pushing for a smaller laptop made possible the iPhone; pushing for a smaller iPhone made possible the Apple Watch, et cetera. (Thinner, lighter devices also have a demonstrated ability to increase usage, by being lighter to hold up.) It’s a design philosophy built into a longer-term strategy.
- lisper 9y ago
  There's a difference between pursuing thinness in R&D and releasing a thin product that cannot be repaired in the field. True story: the other day I was on a trip when my wife's Macbook Air started to rock back and forth on the surface it was sitting on. The battery had failed. It was still working, i.e. providing power, but it had started to bulge. (This turns out to be a known problem.) There was so much pressure that the keyboard and bottom case were visibly deformed. But it was impossible for me to open the case and get the battery out because I didn't have the right pentalobe screwdriver with me. Fortunately, we were able to find a Mac repair shop that was able to get the battery out before it caught fire or exploded. (But we were very lucky. We do a lot of traveling to places that lack this kind of infrastructure.) What they were not able to do was recycle the battery because they didn't have a replacement, so they could not open an official repair ticket. So we had to take the bad battery, still fully charged despite being blown up like a balloon, with us on an airplane so we could take it home and dispose of it properly. It's perfectly fine if Apple wants to offer products like this for people who want to trade off volume for field-repairability. What irks me is that Apple no longer offers any choice in this. My choices today are non-repariable, or Windows (or Linux, but that is not a viable option for my non-geek wife). Those are pretty sucky choices.

doorbumper 9y ago

If you're going to applaud apple for "doing the right thing for customers", it might be good to think about apple's history. When during the last decade has apple ever not tried to ignore severe hardware issues before they lost a lawsuit? Apple has mistreated customers for a long time. They can get away it because their customers have few high end alternatives. The truth is that they make calculated decisions whether ignoring the issue, or responding to the issue will be more beneficial to them financially and public opinion wise. This time they decided that the fallout from evidence of possible planned obsolescence—intentional or not—combined with the fact that a lost lawsuit was likely, and the fact that smartphone sales have fallen for the first time ever, would be financially more painful than compensating their customers.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

GeekyBear 9y ago

>That should put to rest the "Apple's planned obsolescence" narrative, but I doubt it will. That argument has never made much sense to me. If Apple wanted to force people to buy a new device, wouldn't it be much easier to simply stop providing OS and security patches after two years the way most of the Android device makers have traditionally done? How does providing four years of software support (on average) force users to buy a new device more quickly than providing two years of software support (on average)?

gurkendoktor 9y ago
Because a slow (but secure) device is a continuous and frustrating reminder that you need to buy a new phone. Whereas a fast (but unpatched) phone is a joy to use, except in the unlikely event that someone actually hacks you, and then it's not clear whether you would go buy another Apple device. I'm thankful that Apple is doing the right thing by patching older devices, but I also think it aligns with their financial incentives. And to be clear, I don't subscribe to the theory that Apple is intentionally slowing iOS down on older devices. But subjectively, the iPhone 4S struggles with iOS 9 the same way that the iPhone 5s struggles with iOS 11. Even if you work in IT, it's hard to fathom that iOS 11 looks and works the same as iOS 9, but requires a ~4x more powerful CPU to barely chug along[1]. Planned Obsolescence almost wins Occam's Razor here; I'm not surprised that so many people misinterpret the battery throttling thing. [1] https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks
- GeekyBear 9y ago
  Interesting. The reviews at the time claimed that it was slower, but not slow. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/ios-11-on-the-iphone-5s-slower-but-not-quite-slow/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/ios-11-on-the-iphone...
  - gurkendoktor 9y ago
    I've seen these okay-ish numbers, but subjectively it was a crap experience (bad enough to buy an SE). It wasn't really app launch times that bothered me, though. Scrolling all around the OS "felt" (not sure how to measure it) like it was running way below 60 FPS, whereas everything was buttery smooth on iOS 10. And the OS seemed to only keep one or two apps in memory, ever. I suspect it might be because I only had 1GB of free storage, and iOS 11 was uploading and downloading cloud photos like crazy? Often I would take a picture, and by the time I wanted to send it via message ten seconds later, the phone had deleted the original it from my phone, and had to re-download it. I would gladly assume that I'm an outlier, but a friend with a 5s asked me for new phone recommendations right after updating to iOS 11, so there's at least two points of anecdata.