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Social Prescribing has only ever had a negative outcome on me, as well as most medications. Zoloft made me extremely suicidal, Lamotrigine for mood stabilizatio

by sgtmas2006 9y ago

Social Prescribing has only ever had a negative outcome on me, as well as most medications. Zoloft made me extremely suicidal, Lamotrigine for mood stabilization made me lose my hair. The only medication that's ever worked for me is addictive, and prone to abuse. It helps with my severe social anxiety, and prevents rumination. Because of the addictive nature of it, I do not take it. I understand that things such as "social prescribing" may help some, but it is detrimental to me. I have no desire to be forced around a group of people that I have no known common interests, and may have none. I feel that reading the majority of discussions to treat depression fall short in my case, as a lot of them involve other people or outdoor activity. My general disregard for other people and existence as a whole tends to be an issue. I'm sure this can help some, but it seems to just be what most people understand already.

SkyPuncher 9y ago
> Zoloft made me extremely suicidal Were you on an upswing in your mood? There's a tough period with anti-depressants where people are on an upswing to a more positive position. They haven't yet broke free of overwhelming suicidal thoughts and low mood, but now have energy and motivation to actually do things. Unfortunately, that means suicidal thoughts that seemed too difficult now appear possible. It's a really interesting and tough situation. Being suicidal can actually indicate things are working properly, but will still need 4 to 6 weeks to get you to a more positive place.
- DanBC 9y ago
  Yes, but also some anti depressant medication causes suicidal thoughts and actions in some people. (This isn't an argument against taking medication).
  - SkyPuncher 9y ago
    > Yes, but also some anti depressant medication causes suicidal thoughts and actions in some people. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing why it occurs as it's a really interesting reason. When you're super down in the dumps, you simply don't have energy for anything. Even thinking about suicide is a chore so you simply don't do it. When you start on an anti-depressant, it doesn't literally cause to become more depressed or suicidal.It causes suicidal thoughts by giving you the energy to actually have difficult thoughts and actions - including suicidal thoughts.
    - sgtmas2006 9y ago
      Interesting perspective. I guess I could agree with the change from being /passively/ suicidal to actively suicidal.
    - DanBC 9y ago
      > I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing why it occurs as it's a really interesting reason. And I'm saying that's an incomplete picture. It only accounts for some but not all suicidal action in people taking anti-depressant medication. You make it sound like your mechanism is widely accepted. It isn't. For one thing it doesn't account for age differences in suicidality in people taking medication. Here's an easy to read summary of recent research from a trusted source: https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/ssris-and-suicidality/ https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/ssr...
- sgtmas2006 9y ago
  I was actually quite low. I didn't want to put it as harshly as I explain it to people close to me, but it took me from a position of "I want to die, and probably will kill myself semi-soon." to "My shotgun is loaded, 41 steps away from me. In a flash the world could be gone, and my thoughts would vanish and I would be at peace." The prior thought process was accompanied with self-destructive methods. Abandoning friends, work, hobbies, etc. My real emotional escape has always been video games. They keep my thoughts from wandering, and I pour everything in to them. I believe my use of them in that way accompanies my skill at them. (Top 10 PUBG 2 seasons ago, A+ ESEA, Global Elite in CS, top 50 crusader D3 S13, etc.) My accomplishments in video games really help my suicidal tendencies, but they also hamper them. My depression seems to sway between a desire for success, freedom, skill, and a general over-arching hate of the meaningless-ness of existence. On a downswing it can depress me, on an upswing it can inspire me. I don't know enough about the topic from a professional perspective to determine how common that is for people.
  - SkyPuncher 9y ago
    This is exactly where the "suicide warning" on anti-depressants come from. The "I want to die" thought and the "my shotgun is loaded" thought are at their core, the same "I don't want to live". However, the later has motive and intent behind it. The whole goal of anti-depressants is basically to give you motive and intent. In many cases, that can be really good but it also means you have motive for the suicidal thoughts that still linger around.
koala_man 9y ago
Do you think this is a fundamental problem with the approach, or is it more a lack of matchmaking ability?
- sgtmas2006 9y ago
  Very interesting question. I wouldn't say it's a problem with the approach itself, but i'm not quite sure how effective matchmaking could even become. For the majority of cases, probably very. Speaking from experience, I can rarely closely associate with people. In the span of 10 years, from a friend perspective, I've kept approximately 8 people around. None of them are from my geographic region, either. If I lived in a large area, it might be different. All of my friends are 'online' friends. We rarely stray from our group of people either, and we all are quite similar. (It's also probably worth mentioning, solely for interests sake, that we all have some form of diagnosed mental illness, which I find quite interesting.)
slx26 9y ago
I don't think it's so well understood as you say. I believe your personal position and experience makes it quite obvious for you, but not necessarily so much for others, it could be helpful to them... I agree that for some people the situation is much more complicated. In the article they mention endogenous depression. Even if it does not really exist, and it's "just" you needing much more than you have... how are you even supposed to begin to tackle that? If the society you live in is so unhelpful, if you can't even imagine one where you'd want to live, if social interaction is tedious or extremely exhausting and unrewarding even when you are with people you like? Or a thousand more. When even without any other problem and at your best, after regularly trying to put yourself in different positions and meet different people, life feels meaningless, exhausting and always unrewarding, what do you do? Just trying to get the point across. It's great that people are trying to come up with better treatments, but as you say, sometimes it seems like many of those trying to help just keep walking in circles, and many of those who suffer still have the same unanswered questions. It's really unsettling. And maybe it will be hard to get to the next step unless we start helping more ourselves with the insight from the inside. Or maybe I'm just clueless.
- sgtmas2006 9y ago
  I can see how it's less obvious for people, and it is important to bring these things up. They will inevitably help someone. Also man, that second point really hits home. I've had a total of 8 'friends' over the past 10 or more years. Of that, I would consider two of them to be close, intimate friends. And they're both located hundreds of miles from me. One of them is NC with me, as we both accentuate the depressive nature of one another. The only really rewarding thing I experience is video games, because I enjoy competition, and regularly hold top positions over others. It's also the major distraction from depressive thoughts I have. I also have hallucinations / extreme paranoia when away from a computer for too long. The only real release from my depression I feel is being free enough to feel what I please at any time, which is impossible, or to achieve the un-achievable. To put it into a very high-level form, I enjoy learning about anything under the sun, so much so that I wish I could solely dedicate my life to it. However the nature of our world leads to complications: money, family, jobs, etc. That's just something that you have to expect. These things are manageable. What chance within those constraints of society, humanity, and more can you expect to discover or create something that transcends history, to be remembered forever? What about affecting the world in a positive way enough to affect the coming generations into a mindset where knowledge comes first, with no border to access it, with the same plan to better the universe? Such things aren't possible. No single human can have such an effect on the world. So personally I have to make a choice to attempt the impossible every day, trying to work on projects that might some day better our existence, or just give up. I feel a good cutoff age for me is 29. If I don't like the direction my life is going by then, I'll probably take steps to make it not exist, or I'll continue. I don't want to push my views on anyone, and would urge anyone that has the same ideas as me or has felt this way before to seek some form of treatment. It does help, and can get you out of a slump. I've lost friends, family, jobs and more due to the way that I feel. I've spent days not eating or drinking laying in bed crying, waiting for it to end. If you think you need to seek help, do so.

SkyPuncher 9y ago

> Zoloft made me extremely suicidal Were you on an upswing in your mood? There's a tough period with anti-depressants where people are on an upswing to a more positive position. They haven't yet broke free of overwhelming suicidal thoughts and low mood, but now have energy and motivation to actually do things. Unfortunately, that means suicidal thoughts that seemed too difficult now appear possible. It's a really interesting and tough situation. Being suicidal can actually indicate things are working properly, but will still need 4 to 6 weeks to get you to a more positive place.

DanBC 9y ago
Yes, but also some anti depressant medication causes suicidal thoughts and actions in some people. (This isn't an argument against taking medication).
- SkyPuncher 9y ago
  > Yes, but also some anti depressant medication causes suicidal thoughts and actions in some people. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing why it occurs as it's a really interesting reason. When you're super down in the dumps, you simply don't have energy for anything. Even thinking about suicide is a chore so you simply don't do it. When you start on an anti-depressant, it doesn't literally cause to become more depressed or suicidal.It causes suicidal thoughts by giving you the energy to actually have difficult thoughts and actions - including suicidal thoughts.
  - sgtmas2006 9y ago
    Interesting perspective. I guess I could agree with the change from being /passively/ suicidal to actively suicidal.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing why it occurs as it's a really interesting reason. And I'm saying that's an incomplete picture. It only accounts for some but not all suicidal action in people taking anti-depressant medication. You make it sound like your mechanism is widely accepted. It isn't. For one thing it doesn't account for age differences in suicidality in people taking medication. Here's an easy to read summary of recent research from a trusted source: https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/ssris-and-suicidality/ https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/ssr...
sgtmas2006 9y ago
I was actually quite low. I didn't want to put it as harshly as I explain it to people close to me, but it took me from a position of "I want to die, and probably will kill myself semi-soon." to "My shotgun is loaded, 41 steps away from me. In a flash the world could be gone, and my thoughts would vanish and I would be at peace." The prior thought process was accompanied with self-destructive methods. Abandoning friends, work, hobbies, etc. My real emotional escape has always been video games. They keep my thoughts from wandering, and I pour everything in to them. I believe my use of them in that way accompanies my skill at them. (Top 10 PUBG 2 seasons ago, A+ ESEA, Global Elite in CS, top 50 crusader D3 S13, etc.) My accomplishments in video games really help my suicidal tendencies, but they also hamper them. My depression seems to sway between a desire for success, freedom, skill, and a general over-arching hate of the meaningless-ness of existence. On a downswing it can depress me, on an upswing it can inspire me. I don't know enough about the topic from a professional perspective to determine how common that is for people.
- SkyPuncher 9y ago
  This is exactly where the "suicide warning" on anti-depressants come from. The "I want to die" thought and the "my shotgun is loaded" thought are at their core, the same "I don't want to live". However, the later has motive and intent behind it. The whole goal of anti-depressants is basically to give you motive and intent. In many cases, that can be really good but it also means you have motive for the suicidal thoughts that still linger around.

koala_man 9y ago

Do you think this is a fundamental problem with the approach, or is it more a lack of matchmaking ability?

sgtmas2006 9y ago
Very interesting question. I wouldn't say it's a problem with the approach itself, but i'm not quite sure how effective matchmaking could even become. For the majority of cases, probably very. Speaking from experience, I can rarely closely associate with people. In the span of 10 years, from a friend perspective, I've kept approximately 8 people around. None of them are from my geographic region, either. If I lived in a large area, it might be different. All of my friends are 'online' friends. We rarely stray from our group of people either, and we all are quite similar. (It's also probably worth mentioning, solely for interests sake, that we all have some form of diagnosed mental illness, which I find quite interesting.)

slx26 9y ago

I don't think it's so well understood as you say. I believe your personal position and experience makes it quite obvious for you, but not necessarily so much for others, it could be helpful to them... I agree that for some people the situation is much more complicated. In the article they mention endogenous depression. Even if it does not really exist, and it's "just" you needing much more than you have... how are you even supposed to begin to tackle that? If the society you live in is so unhelpful, if you can't even imagine one where you'd want to live, if social interaction is tedious or extremely exhausting and unrewarding even when you are with people you like? Or a thousand more. When even without any other problem and at your best, after regularly trying to put yourself in different positions and meet different people, life feels meaningless, exhausting and always unrewarding, what do you do? Just trying to get the point across. It's great that people are trying to come up with better treatments, but as you say, sometimes it seems like many of those trying to help just keep walking in circles, and many of those who suffer still have the same unanswered questions. It's really unsettling. And maybe it will be hard to get to the next step unless we start helping more ourselves with the insight from the inside. Or maybe I'm just clueless.

sgtmas2006 9y ago
I can see how it's less obvious for people, and it is important to bring these things up. They will inevitably help someone. Also man, that second point really hits home. I've had a total of 8 'friends' over the past 10 or more years. Of that, I would consider two of them to be close, intimate friends. And they're both located hundreds of miles from me. One of them is NC with me, as we both accentuate the depressive nature of one another. The only really rewarding thing I experience is video games, because I enjoy competition, and regularly hold top positions over others. It's also the major distraction from depressive thoughts I have. I also have hallucinations / extreme paranoia when away from a computer for too long. The only real release from my depression I feel is being free enough to feel what I please at any time, which is impossible, or to achieve the un-achievable. To put it into a very high-level form, I enjoy learning about anything under the sun, so much so that I wish I could solely dedicate my life to it. However the nature of our world leads to complications: money, family, jobs, etc. That's just something that you have to expect. These things are manageable. What chance within those constraints of society, humanity, and more can you expect to discover or create something that transcends history, to be remembered forever? What about affecting the world in a positive way enough to affect the coming generations into a mindset where knowledge comes first, with no border to access it, with the same plan to better the universe? Such things aren't possible. No single human can have such an effect on the world. So personally I have to make a choice to attempt the impossible every day, trying to work on projects that might some day better our existence, or just give up. I feel a good cutoff age for me is 29. If I don't like the direction my life is going by then, I'll probably take steps to make it not exist, or I'll continue. I don't want to push my views on anyone, and would urge anyone that has the same ideas as me or has felt this way before to seek some form of treatment. It does help, and can get you out of a slump. I've lost friends, family, jobs and more due to the way that I feel. I've spent days not eating or drinking laying in bed crying, waiting for it to end. If you think you need to seek help, do so.