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I love that Chinese university students are posting George Washington's farewell address (which at the time was the first (?) peaceful turn-over of power ever?)

I love that Chinese university students are posting George Washington's farewell address (which at the time was the first (?) peaceful turn-over of power ever?) I also love the freedoms I have in the States even more now.

masterofcookies 9y ago
It certainly was not the first peaceful turn-over of power in history - there are many examples, but Cincinnatus[1] immediately sprang to my mind. He actually was given and then gave up dictatorial powers twice (note that being a dictator meant in the Roman political system something different than what it means today [2]). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator
- Tyr42 9y ago
  Cincinnatus is the most famous, but not even the first Roman dictator to give up power. He was however, the first one to do so from the generation which never lived under the Kings of Rome, and had first hand experience with long term dictatorial power. He was also known to the early Americans, who respected him so much they named the city of Cincinnati after him.
- thwave 9y ago
  Solon[1] is my favorite example, and how I think a benevolent ruler should act; Write a good constitution and take a step back. I think Juan Carlos of Spain did something similar: "Expected to continue Franco's legacy, Juan Carlos, however, soon after his accession introduced reforms to dismantle the Francoist regime and begin the Spanish transition to democracy" [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain
- pmarreck 9y ago
  ah, this is very interesting! thanks!
alando46 9y ago
While this is certainly troubling in terms of what it means for our fellow Chinese humans, I'm not sure it makes sense to compare this to the U.S. We have a leader who didn't receive the majority of votes. Our government blatantly disregards what people want in favor of the elite (1 example being net neutrality), we support policies that have been shown to systematically oppress non-wealthy whites ("war" on drugs), millions in our country have no affordable healthcare options, we have more gun violence per capita than any other nation that's not at war, etc. This shouldn't become a China vs America discussion. Both China and America have big things to improve on. At least in China, the quality of life for the average person is increasing. In the U.S. many people can no longer afford to buy a house, have no savings, and are at risk of losing middle-class status.
- alando46 9y ago
  Of course there are many scary things happening in China as well (censorship, power consolidation, etc), but all I'm saying is it isn't productive and doesn't make sense to use this news as another reason why the USA is the best ever (or some version of that)
  - mr_spothawk 9y ago
    serious question: who's better? that's the topic for a great series if you want to write it. figuring out who's better is a hard thing. it's not actually a competition though. what we (i) want is more peace, more compassion, more comfort. the US is (in effect) the oldest democracy on the planet, and arguably, the most likely place for the population to affect national change.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  The entirety of your comment is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism fallacy. The Chinese are experts at this sort of bullshit. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/what-is-whataboutism_us_59932909e4b00914164043a4 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/what-is-whataboutism_us...
- unethical_ban 9y ago
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

masterofcookies 9y ago

It certainly was not the first peaceful turn-over of power in history - there are many examples, but Cincinnatus[1] immediately sprang to my mind. He actually was given and then gave up dictatorial powers twice (note that being a dictator meant in the Roman political system something different than what it means today [2]). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator

Tyr42 9y ago
Cincinnatus is the most famous, but not even the first Roman dictator to give up power. He was however, the first one to do so from the generation which never lived under the Kings of Rome, and had first hand experience with long term dictatorial power. He was also known to the early Americans, who respected him so much they named the city of Cincinnati after him.
thwave 9y ago
Solon[1] is my favorite example, and how I think a benevolent ruler should act; Write a good constitution and take a step back. I think Juan Carlos of Spain did something similar: "Expected to continue Franco's legacy, Juan Carlos, however, soon after his accession introduced reforms to dismantle the Francoist regime and begin the Spanish transition to democracy" [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain
pmarreck 9y ago
ah, this is very interesting! thanks!

alando46 9y ago

While this is certainly troubling in terms of what it means for our fellow Chinese humans, I'm not sure it makes sense to compare this to the U.S. We have a leader who didn't receive the majority of votes. Our government blatantly disregards what people want in favor of the elite (1 example being net neutrality), we support policies that have been shown to systematically oppress non-wealthy whites ("war" on drugs), millions in our country have no affordable healthcare options, we have more gun violence per capita than any other nation that's not at war, etc. This shouldn't become a China vs America discussion. Both China and America have big things to improve on. At least in China, the quality of life for the average person is increasing. In the U.S. many people can no longer afford to buy a house, have no savings, and are at risk of losing middle-class status.

alando46 9y ago
Of course there are many scary things happening in China as well (censorship, power consolidation, etc), but all I'm saying is it isn't productive and doesn't make sense to use this news as another reason why the USA is the best ever (or some version of that)
- mr_spothawk 9y ago
  serious question: who's better? that's the topic for a great series if you want to write it. figuring out who's better is a hard thing. it's not actually a competition though. what we (i) want is more peace, more compassion, more comfort. the US is (in effect) the oldest democracy on the planet, and arguably, the most likely place for the population to affect national change.
pmarreck 9y ago
The entirety of your comment is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism fallacy. The Chinese are experts at this sort of bullshit. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/what-is-whataboutism_us_59932909e4b00914164043a4 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/what-is-whataboutism_us...
unethical_ban 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]